Google and Facebook are watching our every move online • Hacker News Board

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#121

Post by Jach » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:29 PM UTC

baxtr wrote: post #15

ucaetano wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I use gmail and don't wish to give it up for now. Well, that's your choice, isn't it? > That's not a reasonable approach for non-techies, but I thought it might interest the HN audience. Non-techies can just go the good ol' way and pay for an ad-free, tracking-free email service, mapping service, storage service, etc.

I’m not a google fan, but can you name one free service that is par? I think many people would en pay if there was an alternative

Two of the replies mention FastMail, which for all I know might be nice, but FastMail still seems to be in its infancy (though perhaps growing fast) when it comes to securing customers' data. See the recent https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15853477

I've been using Gmail for over a decade. I've been getting in the habit of using a purpose@mydomain email for as many signups as I can (that for now all forward to my gmail) so that the impact of a random Google mess up that disables my access to my account is lessened, but there's still no service I trust more for my email's security and privacy apart from Google's algo-eyes (that offer me some features I appreciate anyway). Maybe that trust is misplaced and we're only a few years away from a Yahoo-level incompetence reveal, but I doubt it.

If there was a way to setup a local mailserver that can peer in a hierarchy with more trusted mailservers (so that I can send email with reasonable confidence it won't end up in a spam folder), and have encrypted buffers stored at those peers for when my local machine is offline and can't accept deliveries, I'd do that. Maybe it's possible with Urbit.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#122

Post by mar77i » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:31 PM UTC

mr_overalls wrote: post #117

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

You should be worried for these reasons: 1) Google (and other SV giants) share data with the NSA. https://www.salon.com/2014/11/16/googles_secret_nsa_alliance... 2) The NSA in turn shares information with law-enforcement agencies. ICREACH contains information on the private communications millions of American citizens who have not been accused of any wrongdoing. https://gizmodo.com/the-nsa-made-its-own-google-to-help…

And then there's this...

https://wikileaks.org/google-is-not-what-it-seems/

Speaking of spooky stuff and google, this article still takes the cake.

EDIT: for completeness sake, there has been a follow up:

https://wikileaks.org/Op-ed-Google-and-the-NSA-Who-s.html

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#123

Post by dvfjsdhgfv » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:32 PM UTC

DavideNL wrote: post #113

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

> I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic...) I hate it when people use this as an argument against "Google invading privacy", it's an argument that doesn't make any sense at all; Encrypting your data in transit prevents outsiders from reading your data, obviously it doesn't prevent Google itself from accessing your data. This article is about how Google (and FB, etc.) invades…

> Google should at least let people CHOOSE whether they want to use their products at the cost of privacy.

Why should they let us do that? No other company is doing that. It's a tacit agreement between providers of free-to-use services and the people who choose to use them: the more personal data you give, the more you receive. If a company has a very good offering or is currently trending, they can even demand your phone number, credit card number (of course you can cancel the service anytime, but they will have a strong verification of your real name then) or even your passport/driver's license. We all came to accept that as a given, nobody questions these practices any longer. It's as if people collectively just stopped giving a damn about their privacy.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#124

Post by ocdtrekkie » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:32 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #69

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

Didn't they only encrypt internal traffic after the Snowdon revelation?

Specifically, they had point-to-point fiber links between their datacenters that theoretically couldn't be intercepted, so they didn't believe they needed to encrypt data transiting between datacenters.

The NSA proved them wrong on that belief, and they started implementing encryption on those connections.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#125

Post by lucb1e » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:36 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #86

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook, at least, is quite happy to build your shadow profile regardless of whether you're logged in.

Right, they're buying those from 3rd party data brokers I believe. This is the place where legislation is needed so people can own their own data. I would love to see some clearing house that sends out requests to people saying "Facebook or whomever is interested in acquiring your day" and you are given the option of approving or denying.

> they're buying those from 3rd party data brokers I believe

Huh, why would they need to? The first time you load an element from Facebook (be it a like button, comments or something else) you just get a unique cookie and there's your Facebook profile. Now it's a waiting game until you log in and they can connect it to a person, or you do something else that allows them to identify you (maybe visiting friend's pages, and they already have WhatsApp data so they know who talks with that specific set of people? Idk, there's just so much data and so many options). Or they can never connect it to a person but they can still show you good ads based on that browsing history.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#126

Post by atc » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:48 PM UTC

ucaetano wrote: post #100

addicted wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't apply to all companies. Apple, for example, has very strong incentives to maintain your privacy, to the point that they have made it a selling point for their devices and are also suffering in the realms of machine learning because they are not leveraging your data the way Google or FB would.

> has very strong incentives to maintain your privacy > their incentives aren't really aligned with yours No, they have a very strong incentive to appear to maintain your privacy. And that's only temporary. Don't fall for any company saying that they're doing something in the user's interests. They aren't. Companies exist to make profits, if for a brief period of time that means helping users in some way, it's only a…

But if profit is the incentive and privacy is proven to increase profit then the two go hand in hand.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#127

Post by atc » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:51 PM UTC

fwdpropaganda wrote: post #94

Zhyl wrote: post #2

I read the opening paragraph and thought 'wow, this guy has clearly just taken the release statement from Duckduckgo's privacy app announcement (or possibly their much-upvoted AMA) and just copied and pasted some statistics.' Then I saw the author.

Well spotted, very funny. Speaking of which, I recently moved to DDG and couldn't be happier. Frankly the only thing I don't like about DDG is the name.

Moved a few months ago, have zero issues. 99% of my queries are there now.

I'm leaving Google as much as possible - I'm seriously concerned at the fact their workforce is made up of fascists on the left & the right of the spectrum and they're "pro diveristy" when it comes to colour but not of opionion. We shouldn't be rewarding that mentality.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#128

Post by cabalamat » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:55 PM UTC

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

> I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data).

Even if they aren't doing anything reprehensible now, can you guarantee that they won't in future?

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#129

Post by mdekkers » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:58 PM UTC

gknoy wrote: post #62

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

Facebook's "X years ago today, you posted this ..." has been amazing. I don't usually re-share it but it really brightens my morning or day to see photos of my kids when they were 4-5 years younger, and marvel at how much they've grown. I mean, I'd still think about that even without FB showing me things, but I would not have managed to build a "here's a flashback!" photo-reminder system. In an age when we take SO MA…

Facebook's "X years ago today, you posted this ..." has been amazing

I can see your point but it isn't relevant to the article, and also, it is a matter of perspective. I managed to permanently disable it, after it kept popping up photos of my then-recently deceased spouse. Not something I was ready to deal with, and after switching it off, FB helpfully turned it back on for me. I eventually managed to disable it permanently, but if there is one thing I hate it is for some software to treat my instructions as suggestions.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#130

Post by Dirlewanger » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 9:04 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #83

maxxxxx wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The need for exponential growth will force all big players into making more money and doing shadier things more and more. I am especially concerned about Google and Facebook since they haven't figured any way for making for making money other than selling ads. Apple and MS at least have products they sell. I think we really should start making it difficult for companies to grow beyond a certain size. I think they are…

Companies that grow beyond a certain size become laden with inertia and overhead. Smaller companies can come along and disrupt them. Facebook did this to MySpace. Someone will do it to Facebook, eventually.

It's looking more and more unlikely every day. The Facebooks and Googles have such massive reach that they'll just buy whatever competitor threatens them. They and others have been doing it for years.