9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead • Hacker News Board

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#121

Post by logfromblammo » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 10:23 PM UTC

goodcanadian wrote: post #117

logfromblammo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the Ben Franklin Poor Richard's Almanac thing: "Early to bed, and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise." He was also the buttmunch that gave us daylight savings time.

Why do you believe Ben Franklin had anything to do with daylight saving time? The only thing I've ever seen by him in regards to DST roundly satirized the idea. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time

He wrote a paper (humorously) suggesting that Parisians would save on candle wax if they got out of bed earlier. Apparently Germany missed the humor when they pushed the clocks back in WW1 to save lamp oil.

It is possible that DST would have happened without Franklin, but I blame him anyway, because I never liked his sanctimonious attitude toward waking up early.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#122

Post by khedoros1 » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 10:34 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #66

davehtaylor wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because people think "morning person" is the default, and correct, way of being. And that not being a morning person makes you odd or lazy. So when someone comes in challenging late-friendly scheduling, they're assumed to be the correct one, and that the workplace has somehow been in error by allowing later schedules.

But morning really is the default; it's our biological default. Most people wake up in the morning and go to bed at night naturally. Many people have small children, good luck remaining a night person with a 1 year old in the house. There are real reasons here, it's not just some arbitrary decision.

Without electrical lighting and such, I'd agree. Sleep not long after sundown, a mid-night period of wakefulness, wake up for the day around sunrise. Ever since I can remember, my own default is to maintain activity late into the night, and then sleep as close to 8 or 9 hours as I'm permitted. Granted, that's a little rough if my 3 year old happens to wake up at 7:30, but 8:30 or 9 is pretty common for him; at 1, he often slept until 10, after being put to bed at 8pm.

8:30 - 10:00 seems to be the time range that I'll be ready to get up, when left to my own schedule. It's usually 2-3 hours after I wake up that I'm really ready to jump into a heavy project. The person who wakes up at 6 is right on target to start working, if they come in at 8. Me, I always feel like I could've used a couple more hours of sleep, even if I went to bed at 10pm the night before.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#123

Post by whatyoucantsay » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 10:36 PM UTC

patchorang wrote: post #23

I live in a region where winter days are very short. I go to work and it's dark, I leave work and it's dark. I don't understand why we have decided to go sit in buildings during daylight hours. Even with a 40-hour week, I would love if the work day was shifted to allow one to get sunlight for a few hours each day.

Forgive my ignorance, but aren't such places bitterly cold outside?

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#124

Post by tcoff91 » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 10:40 PM UTC

lightbyte wrote: post #60

blakesterz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that even an argument? Does someone really argue that getting them up early is good for them? Especially for high school kids (maybe 14-18 ish?). No one could possibly think that sending them to a school that starts at 7am is any way good for them. In our distract the high school starts at 7am and the small kids start at 9am. This makes no sense to me at all. (I'm not a kid complaining, I'm a parent)

>In our distract the high school starts at 7am and the small kids start at 9am. This makes no sense to me at all. (I'm not a kid complaining, I'm a parent) I was always under the impression this staggered start rate among school tiers was because they all share the same buses. If they all started at the same time they would need ~3x as many buses and bus drivers.

There was no schoolbus system where I grew up in southern california, we only ever took the school bus for field trips. Is it really that common across the country for kids to get to school by bus? We always just rode our bikes or walked, or got driven by parents.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#125

Post by joshmanders » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 10:46 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #120

davehtaylor wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as it isn't very windy, it's easy to make 14 comfortable. No, no it is not. And I say this as someone who enjoys the cold. No matter what, if it's 14 degrees outside, I'm only going out if I absolutely must. There's no hanging out in the parking lot during lunch in that kind of weather.

It's all relative. After a couple weeks of waking up to temperatures around or below 0F, the rise to the mid-teens felt like an early Spring.

I disagree. I'm from the midwest also. Grew up in Wisconsin/Iowa, and currently live in Iowa. I live where the wind hurts my face. Why do I live where the wind hurts my face?

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#126

Post by khedoros1 » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 10:47 PM UTC

krylon wrote: post #68

core-questions wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be really against DST, but honestly, it's the only thing that actually lets me see the damn sun at all in the winter, so now I'm a fan.

But DST is in summer , isn't it? At least that is what I have been told: In summer, days are so long and start so early that we might as well move the whole day back by an hour, so get up early, finish work early and still have a couple of hours of daylight left. Full disclosure: I am not a fan of DST, but I do not expect the current situation to change. In Europe, almost(?) all countries use it, so if just Germany (…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time#/media/Fi...

In areas that are arguably Europe, it looks like Iceland, Kaliningrad Oblast, and Belarus are the places that stick out.

I'm in California; most of Arizona is permanently in daylight savings, and we work with a lot of developers in China and India, which don't observe it. It certainly complicates things, sometimes.

I've done work on my product's logging subsystem before, and especially bugs with recorded times. Dealing with different DST rules is a mess.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#127

Post by khedoros1 » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 10:48 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #72

dictum wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then one insanely morning person joins and wants to leave at 3:30 every day. Suddenly all of his scheduling preferences were presumed valid Why wouldn't their preferences be presumed valid? It's as hard for the morning person to deal with night-person preferences as it's hard for a night person to deal with morning-person preferences. (Disclaimer: I'm a morning person and I'm not American.)

Why wouldn't their preferences be presumed valid? If I read the story right, there was one morning person and several night people. Why should the one person's preferences be presumed more valid than the several persons' preferences?

Cultural momentum (as an "is" not a "should").

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#128

Post by khedoros1 » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 10:50 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #65

nitrogen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...if they want to come in a 8:00pm and work until 2:00am, why not? Part of the "why not" is a deeply ingrained belief in at least American culture that morning people are just "better" than night people. It's so ingrained that we mostly forget to talk about it and it's just assumed. "Early bird catches the worm" and all that. I once saw a workplace where there were night-person-friendly policies and schedules. Then…

part of it, yes, but unless you work in a complete vacuum people will need your input throughout the day. They may need support, or your attendance at a meeting, or maybe the just need to ask a simple question. I couldn't support one of my devs asking for hours completely opposite everyone else as it would slow the entire team down.

We've got a minority working in the US and a majority across the Pacific. It adds friction, but you work it out. Even in the local office, a couple of the devs tend to have personal matters in the morning, but work late into the night. Again, you work it out, and it's not a big deal.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#129

Post by logfromblammo » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 11:17 PM UTC

krylon wrote: post #68

core-questions wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be really against DST, but honestly, it's the only thing that actually lets me see the damn sun at all in the winter, so now I'm a fan.

But DST is in summer , isn't it? At least that is what I have been told: In summer, days are so long and start so early that we might as well move the whole day back by an hour, so get up early, finish work early and still have a couple of hours of daylight left. Full disclosure: I am not a fan of DST, but I do not expect the current situation to change. In Europe, almost(?) all countries use it, so if just Germany (…

DST is the civil equivalent of changing the behavior of some electronic hardware by doubling the clock signal instead of reprogramming and re-flashing the firmware. It's simple to do, but is also stupid and inefficient, and causes a lot of obscure unintended consequences later on. I'd actually be fine with converting all time and date records, all calendars, and all clocks to integer Julian Day Number, plus the integer number of milliseconds since mean solar noon at the Prime Meridian, plus another numeric field for greater precision, because there is an enormous advantage to not doing stupid tricks with clocks and time zones. Just count.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#130

Post by lazyasciiart » Fri, Jan 26, 2018, 3:56 AM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #108

lazyasciiart wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would, but people start panicking because they don't want their six year old standing alone on a deserted street corner in the dark waiting for a school bus. Seattle changed it to do that last year, but honestly what the fuck makes sense about a 7am school start time for anyone? In Australia I didn't know anyone who started school before 8.30am, ever. And that start time was basically consistent for 12 years of sc…

6 year olds don't stand alone waiting for the bus anymore, there's always a parent waiting with them even though it's safer today than when we waited outside by ourselves. Even 9-10 year olds commonly have parents waiting with them.

Well, it's usually parents making this complaint, so I assume that it is the parents who don't want to stand with their kids that have an issue.