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Miners Aren’t Friends

blog.keep.network

121–130 of 256 posts

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#121
post #90

Can any explain how the economics of mining does not promote the creation of a miner monopoly, aka a "miner Amazon". Once a single entity controls mining, Game Over: the economy is owned.

Anyone with compatible equipment can mine on the network; no permission needed.

Anyone who owns 99% of compute capacity can distribute a patch to the "distributed" network forbidding blocks mined by "unauthorized" or "unofficial" clients, and since that person's 99% of the compute power constitutes a majority, newcomers are effectively locked out.

Blockchain's dependency on distributed computation remaining democratic with a diverse range of self-interests is axiomatic to the model.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#122

Can any explain how the economics of mining does not promote the creation of a miner monopoly, aka a "miner Amazon". Once a single entity controls mining, Game Over: the economy is owned.

You are answering your own question. Suppose someone would invest billions in obtaining a mining rig that single handedly achieves 51% of the mining power of the network, then he effectively kills that network, and makes his investment worthless.

There's a reason the valuations of Bitcoin and Ether waiver every time it seems a pool is coming close to 51% mining power, it's because everyone is scared of what happens when that happens.

In the real world, I think miners approaching 51% of mining power is an accidental and temporary thing. It means that the coin is overvalued, and investors are over investing in mining operations. As the article states, the amount of profit these operations turn really isn't that big. They're operating on thin margins, and operations going bankrupt is not unheard of.

There's simply no reason to go and "own" the network. Best case, you'll turn a loss, worst case, you destroy the network and lose your entire investment.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#123
post #96
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidity has a lot of potential pitfalls that need to be avoided, just like similar languages. Some of these are due to poor or unintuitive language design, although a lot of improvements have been made over time. The wallet bug involving Parity's multisig wallets was due to an error that Parity made, even if it's an error that may have been easy to make, it should have been caught in testing or code reviews due to h…

It’s well established that humans will make programming errors, and that good language design can reduce the rate of such errors (and eliminate certain classes of errors altogether). I’m surprised you are willing to place so much blame on Solidity’s users for their mistakes when these mistakes would have be avoided with simple improvements to the language design.

Simple improvements help fix simple errors. With so much money on the line I do somewhat blame the users.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#124

Miners are surely not gamers’ friends. All high end cards have been sold out for weeks. They are now completely overpriced ($1300 for a GTX 1080 Ti).

By that same token, they're not other miners' friends, either. I own three 1070s and a 1060 which I purchased primarily for mining[0] but also because other things I do benefit from the added compute capability. I purchased the first 1070 for less than $350 right after release. I can't find them for less than $400, now.

The funny thing about that is I'm funding my other needs for graphics cards[1] by mining. I wouldn't say I've "paid" $400 for any of them past the first one since all of the others have been funded with mining profits. And I probably wouldn't own three graphics cards were it not for mining.

At some point, I firmly believe, the bubble will pop on all of this and those cards will come back down to earth (I've been saying this for over 4 years, though, and have been wrong for at least that long). Until then, mining to buy video cards is always an option. :)

[0] Mining is kind of a secondary reason. The primary reason is that I wanted to learn CUDA and I know myself well enough to know that if I don't have a project in mind, I will never take the time to learn it, so I set about optimizing an existing CUDA mining implementation and set about learning it successfully.

[1] I play computer games pretty rarely, but I like to fuss around with modeling programs and having a few of these really speeds up rendering in programs that support IRAY. I'm using it for playing with ML code, as well, which wasn't enough of a project to get me interested in learning CUDA, but is enough to keep me interested now that I know the language a bit.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#125
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Ethereum's existence hinge on Solidity? Isn't Solidity just a language that one can compile to the lower-level language actually built into Ethereum?

Someone told me recently that there's an idea to replace EVM (the lower-level language actually built into Ethereum) with WASM. That would allow people to target it with a variety of existing programming languages, some of which are not clown shoes. If that's possible, it sounds sensible.

The EVM is the runtime, not the language. WASM would be great though. A couple new projects are using it (eg Dfinity)

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#126
post #78

Can someone explain to me how on earth Ethereum is still a thing? People have lost hundreds of millions of dollars in the Ethereum ecosystem, many due to basic flaws in the "Solidity" language. For example, last November $280 million was frozen in Parity wallets because function visibility defaults to external rather than internal (see the previous HN discussion here[0]). Just for fun, I was looking through the Secur…

Solidity has a lot of potential pitfalls that need to be avoided, just like similar languages. Some of these are due to poor or unintuitive language design, although a lot of improvements have been made over time. The wallet bug involving Parity's multisig wallets was due to an error that Parity made, even if it's an error that may have been easy to make, it should have been caught in testing or code reviews due to h…

The key difference between Solidity and other languages, of course, is that most people don't trust other languages so explicitly and irrevocably. Other code environments can be monitored for errors and those errors can be corrected, usually in ways that don't involve kissing all the money goodbye.

On something so absolute as Ethereum, I would expect them to use a very dumb language with as few complications and complexities as possible, and then to formally verify the crap out of it, and quickly make it the most consistent, predictable, and stable language on the planet (again, possible only with a very barebones language that does not have complex features). The fact that Ethereum has been around for so many years and this has not happened indicates that it's not a serious platform.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#127
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I just assumed ETH was out of reach of personal mining now. Sure, you could hold "shitcoins" that are currently easier to mine but that's a lot more risky than long term holding something like ETH, LTC, XMR (at least I think it is anyway).

It takes 3 months to make all of your initial investment back on mining ETH with a 1060, after electricity.

That's actually better than I would have imagined. What's the difficulty growth like with ETH these days? Or, what's a safe estimation of how many ETH a 1060 could mine before Casper lands?

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#128

Can any explain how the economics of mining does not promote the creation of a miner monopoly, aka a "miner Amazon". Once a single entity controls mining, Game Over: the economy is owned.

Isn't that incentive enough for any entity to deliberately stay below the threshold? Once they cross it, trust in the network, and thus price, plummets. That's reason enough for most to avoid getting that big.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#129

Miners are surely not gamers’ friends. All high end cards have been sold out for weeks. They are now completely overpriced ($1300 for a GTX 1080 Ti).

Are people now moving on to nvidia cards for mining? I haven't followed closely for several years, but back in the day, it was all about AMD because nVidia's chips were much less efficient at this type of work.

If nvidia is now in demand for mining, are people going for that because AMD is nowhere to be found and they're just going for the next-best thing, or has nvidia gotten better at this?

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#130

Can someone explain to me how on earth Ethereum is still a thing? People have lost hundreds of millions of dollars in the Ethereum ecosystem, many due to basic flaws in the "Solidity" language. For example, last November $280 million was frozen in Parity wallets because function visibility defaults to external rather than internal (see the previous HN discussion here[0]). Just for fun, I was looking through the Secur…

Who cares about the language when the very premise of the project "code is law" was proven wrong. When the DAO was "hacked" by a "thief", rather than tell people "whelp, code is law and the code executed perfect" the mob (more accurately, those at the top of the etherium pyramid) decided to change history and roll back the blockchain.

Even the language designed to describe the "hack" was garbage. It wasn't a "hack", if code is law, all bugs are code and therefore part of law. There was no "thief" that "stole" anything either. Code is law. Somebody followed the contract down to the letter and made a trade to their benefited. Code is law.

If the central tenant of "code is law" cannot even be held and real meatspace-based humans can modify history at will.... what value does ethereum add at all besides pissing away an unimaginable amount of energy turning non-renewable fossil fuels into heat?

If anybody can modify history.... just use AWS. It's cheaper.

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