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James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

techcrunch.com

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Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#121

Post by threeseed »

brndnmtthws wrote: post #8
Veen wrote: post #3

From the article: > women may not be equally represented in tech because they are biologically less capable of engineering Why do news outlets persistently misrepresent what he actually said? I've read his memo and just about every news article says it contains claims that it doesn't. I have no view on whether he's right or not, but I remain shocked at the misrepresentation of his views throughout the tech media.

News outlets generate income through sensationalism, and that's the storyline that they need to drive the most traffic.

This has nothing to do with the news and everything to do with what Damore did.

He was fired for a reason.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#122

Post by jstanley »

paulgb wrote: post #18
Veen wrote: post #3

From the article: > women may not be equally represented in tech because they are biologically less capable of engineering Why do news outlets persistently misrepresent what he actually said? I've read his memo and just about every news article says it contains claims that it doesn't. I have no view on whether he's right or not, but I remain shocked at the misrepresentation of his views throughout the tech media.

Is the quote you pulled not saying the same thing as this from Damore's memo? > I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Edit: ebbv beat me to it

He's talking about distributions, while the article makes out that he is talking about all women in general.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#123

Post by ThrustVectoring »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #68
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between "fewer women wind up having the skills for X" and "women are worse at X".

Is there really a difference if you believe the reason women "wind up" lacking the skills for X is due to biology? Asserting biology makes it essentialist, it's the same as saying "women are worse at X."

Yeah, there is. "Women are worse" implies that there's a gendered difference after applying the "is an engineer" filter. "Fewer women gain entry into the class of engineers" doesn't imply anything about ability afterwards. And for what it's worth, James Damore explicitly called out this distinction, saying that he was not making a claim about any sort of skill differential between male engineer and female engineers.

Like, male and female high jumpers that make it over a certain height of bar are approximately as good at jumping. There's more men in that category. This all might be playing semantics, but I think there's a real thing here to disentangle, and it'd be nice to say one without implying the other.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#124

Post by 1_2__4 »

Jonovono wrote: post #27

I never really saw too much issue with what he wrote. It seemed a lot of people were mad at him for things he never said. It's been awhile since I read his document, but I remember expecting it to be so bad from all the uproar I was hearing, but after reading it I couldn't find much to be angry about. Can someone enlighten me - i'll admit, this may be a highly ignorant topic of mine.

Google, and a few other major tech companies, have turned diversity into a religion. It’s insane. We spend more time talking about it than anything technical or organizational. There is no dialogue about it either, just every day we’re bombarded with reminders about how much we’re failing at diversity and how all people everywhere must be considering diversity before anything else. ANYTHING else. At all times.

What he did was speak heresy. I’m sorry that it sounds like I’m a butthurt male but the fact is diversity is dogma in these companies and you either buy in wholeheartedly, constantly, to the exclusion of all other priorities, or you’re ex-communicated.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#125

Post by anonemouse145 »

dmode wrote: post #47
Veen wrote: post #3

From the article: > women may not be equally represented in tech because they are biologically less capable of engineering Why do news outlets persistently misrepresent what he actually said? I've read his memo and just about every news article says it contains claims that it doesn't. I have no view on whether he's right or not, but I remain shocked at the misrepresentation of his views throughout the tech media.

Can you elaborate on what in your mind is the correct interpretation ? Because, reading his memo, I had the exact same takeaway as the Techcrunch quote you posted here.

His memo does not say "women are incapable of programming". He says the way Google uses engineers means men are more likely to fit the role. He offers suggestions on how to change the role to attract more women. For example, women may be attracted to social programming (pair or mob programming) versus the classic picture of some man locked away in a basement. Which he references specifically in the article.

This is different from discriminatory hiring of women to be forced into a male oriented role. This is a substantive claim, which he accuses Google of doing. Discriminatory hiring is illegal, and also stupid, from a free market standpoint.

Tldr: If women aren't buying your product (not applying to Google), it's not the fault of women, its your product that needs to change to suit their wants and needs.

This is only sexist if you think men and women don't, as a general statistical rule, tend toward different interests along a bimodal distribution. But they do.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#126

Post by jstanley »

kharms wrote: post #80
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between "fewer women wind up having the skills for X" and "women are worse at X".

“Distribution of...abilities” suggests “women are worse.” If the quote merely spoke of skills I could see your point, but it speaks of abilities and points to genetics as an root cause.

> “Distribution of...abilities” suggests “women are worse.”

No, it doesn't. It suggests fewer women are good. It doesn't suggest that the women in the field are any worse than the men in the field, it just explains why there may be fewer women than men.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#127

Post by stale2002 »

dguaraglia wrote: post #22
stale2002 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he said something about biologically less INTERESTED in engineering, nothing about capability.

Would you call "lack of interest" a handicap? Would you be likely to be suspicious about candidates coming from a group that you know to be "less interested" in a job you are offering?

No?

The person who isn't interested wouldn't even be applying in the industry in the first place.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#128

Post by gnicholas »

whack wrote: post #78

"...employees of Google who’ve been discriminated against due to their “perceived conservative political views by Google " Is that really illegal? If someone was not hired on account of his being a White supremacist, would he have any basis for a lawsuit?

In California, yes. See section 4 of:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#129

Post by ArchReaper »

lilycaliber wrote: post #66

good! If googly butts were SMARTER than they pretend to be, they'd actually offer him angel funds to start up a completely NEW platform to COMPETE with their frankenstenian perverted still a butt buddy collectivista broken search engine legacy! But then they'd have to go up against the TRULY evil giant bully in the room which is PALANTIR! Bwuahahahahaha. We're gonna gitch ya anyway, no matter WHO you scapegoat you ho…

What have you been smoking?

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#130

Post by vorotato »

jstanley wrote: post #110
vorotato wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't a federally protected group according to this list. This particular situation though is extra hairy because even if it was religious the offended parties could argue that a protection is not a license to advocate discrimination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group

Good job he wasn't advocating discrimination then

He'll have to explain that to a jury, and I've read the memo that claim is not abundantly clear.
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