Whales can only sell once. It's also not in their self interest to make a market collapse, why would they depress the price of the thing they are trying to sell? When whales do sell many smaller buyers then take ownership of their coins decreasing the chance of future volatility. These concerns are being exaggerated too much.
It's not in their interest but things happen. Lots of these people live in China right? Let's say some economic downturn happens in China, or government policy changes or something and they need to liquidate some of their bitcoin assets in a hurry all the sudden you could have a market collapse.
The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market
121–130 of 327 posts
Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is what I don't understand. In the hypothetical case where we switch to using bitcoin won't early adopters be the only people with money? What about the 99.9(9?)% of the population who don't own any bitcoins?
How are you thinking the switch would occur? It's not like the "old" currencies will suddenly lose their value, you'll be able to exchange them for a long time. Plus, most people don't own that much currency anyway; they either get a paycheck (which can start coming in BTC) or an asset like a house, which is valuable in any currency.
Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market
#123Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the former method of creating currency is fairer and more transparent.
Well it's obviously not necessarily more transparent. I know that the Fed is creating money, I can find out how much it's creating and I can listen to government officials explain why we should create more/less money or why we should make money in this instance but not that one, etc. I can even vote for people whose dollar creation opinions line up with mine. In BTC I don't know who's creating it, what they believe a…
Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is what I don't understand. In the hypothetical case where we switch to using bitcoin won't early adopters be the only people with money? What about the 99.9(9?)% of the population who don't own any bitcoins?
How are you thinking the switch would occur? It's not like the "old" currencies will suddenly lose their value, you'll be able to exchange them for a long time. Plus, most people don't own that much currency anyway; they either get a paycheck (which can start coming in BTC) or an asset like a house, which is valuable in any currency.
Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm no libertarian, but wouldn't the fact that you can buy bitcoins with traditional fiat currency throw a wrench in this being a valid experiment? Since anyone that received an "unfair advantage" with government-issued fiat can turn around and use it to get an unfair advantage in bitcoin as well?
So in order for libertarian society to work as desired we first have to... evenly distribute the wealth? I don't think we'll find any libertarians taking that position.
Here is Joseph Dejacques using "libertarian" for the first time in a letter to Proudhon (incidentally also an early feminist work; the letter was a rebuke to Proudhons male chauvinism):
> Flogger of woman and absolute serf of man, Proudhon Magnan, you use your words for a lash. Like a slave-driver you seem delighted to disrobe your beautiful victims (on paper) and flagellate them with invectives. Moderate anarchist, liberal, but not libertarian, you want free exchange of cotton and candles and you seek to protect man against woman in the exchange of affectional human passion. You cry against the great barons of capital, and you would rebuild a proud barony of man on vassal-woman. Logician with misfit eyeglasses, you are unable to read the lessons of the present or the past; you can discern nothing that is elevated or at a distance or in the perspective of the future.
(EDIT: Worth noting above is that he sets "moderate anarchist" up as less radical than "libertarian")
And this is another paragraph from the same letter, denouncing not just property rights (one of things he admired in Proudhon's was his "property is theft" slogan) but denouncing restrictions on consumption:
> Do I need, for example, one sun for myself, one river for myself, one forest for my own, or all the houses in all the streets for my own? Have I the right to become the proprietor of them to the exclusion of others, especially when I do not need them? If I have not that right, is it any more just for me to wish, as under the system of contracts, to measure to each one—according to his accidental ability to produce—just what proportion he should receive of all things; how much of the sun’s rays he is entitled to, how many cubic feet of air and of water shall he allotted to him, or the extent of his promenades in the forests; what number or the parts of the houses he may occupy, what streets he may walk in and what streets he must keep out of?
While you probably won't agree with much he says - as a libertarian socialist even I disagree with much of what he says (he's very much what Marx would have written off as one of the utopian socialists, or a hippie a century early), the letter is well worth a read both because it has historical importance in being the start of libertarianism (right wing libertarianism was first born about a century later), but also because it is incredibly beautifully written even if one disagrees with it:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/joseph-dejacque-on-t...
Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
You know what "risk" means, right?
Do you own a dictionary?
Generally anyone that tells you that you can make an unusual amount of money on an investment (or, um, MLM business) without risking losing a lot is trying to scam you (even if they believe their own scam).
Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market
#128It's not unlikely the same reasoning (i.e. 40% of coins on top 1000 addresses) is used for the larger claim.
But that says very little. A bitcoin address after all can be shared by many users, in the same way a bank vault can contain money from many individuals. It's quite likely that the top addresses are held in a (semi) custodial function by parties like Coinbase or Kraken, which have hundreds of thousands to millions of customers, but may store their users' coins on a number of addresses that's a tiny fraction of their user count.
Regardless, unequal wealth distribution isn't entirely unique to bitcoin, either. The top 1% worldwide own about 50% of the world's wealth, the richest 10% own about 85%.
Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
How are you thinking the switch would occur? It's not like the "old" currencies will suddenly lose their value, you'll be able to exchange them for a long time. Plus, most people don't own that much currency anyway; they either get a paycheck (which can start coming in BTC) or an asset like a house, which is valuable in any currency.
USD has already declined in value 3x over the past 6 weeks, compared to BTC
Re: The Bitcoin Whales: 1,000 People Who Own 40 Percent of the Market
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems pretty obvious to me as well. Given huge speculation surrounding them at the moment I'm surprised we don't hear more people warning about these things. I don't think I want to live in a world where BTC replaces the USD/EUR/... Untraceable money means that corruption and tax evasion would be easier than ever. Democratic governments would be worse off in dealing with that, because unlike totaliatrian regimes t…
I don't completely disagree but I will try to at least bring up some contrary views. > Untraceable money Bitcoin is pseudoanonymous with it's public ledger, hardly untraceable. Look into Monero for a proper anonymous coin. > Untraceable money means that corruption and tax evasion would be easier than ever. A contrary point is that today corruption and tax evasion is only for the very rich, see the paradise papers for…
Fair enough, how about "trivial to launder" instead? The fact that every transaction is visible on the blockchain means that people who don't bother obfuscating their tracks (i.e. honest people who don't feel they have anything to hide) are the one who risk their privacy invaded: "hey, look, this is the address where we pay X his salary and some of it got transfered to the known address of this sex shop website".
If you want to hide your tracks however it's easy. Say I'm a politician and I want to accept a bribe. I can get a briefcase full of cash, but that's bulky, not very convenient and I could get caught if I try to move it (especially across borders).
Or I could try to open a bank account in some place where people look the other way but it's more complicated, involves third parties who could expose me (panama papers, lux leaks...), leaves a paper trail etc...
With BTC I click "generate a new receive address" in my wallet, give it to my anonymous benefactor and that's that.
Then after that if I really want to make it difficult to follow the money I can split my coin in multiple addresses, do a bunch of dummy transactions to obfuscate where the BTC change hands, go through a bunch of coin mixers, maybe convert to an other crypto (monero for instance?), do a bunch more mixing, and then back to BTC. Good luck unravelling all that.
>It could be stablished as a law that public money when being spent in the blockchain needs to be auditable by the people (identities of sender and recipient known), and this way you would end up with even less corruption than the current system.
Public spending is already supposed to be auditable in the democratic countries I know of (except in very specific cases, like "black boxes" for paying informants etc..). Generally corruption and waste is when people overpay for a service, like say paying 10x the cost for the construction of a new stadium, favouring a contractor over an other etc... I don't think BTC would help greatly with that. There are many, many ways of making "technically legal" purchases that conceal corruption, I don't think it would improve things very much. "Here, have this very valuable painting by Manet as a thank you for your help", "Here, let me make a charitable donation to your foundation", "Here, let me change this piece of regulation that will benefit your company", etc...
Unless you want to force all citizens (in the public and private) to publish their addresses I'm not sure you can really reign that in. And even then, how would you enforce that?