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Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

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Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#121
post #52
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to send $700 in bitcoin to purchase something. It's going to cost me $65 to buy the coins and several hours of time. Of course, I am banned from Coinbase for an innocous bank mistake. There's literally no other options to buy coins at 1-2% in the US.

Isn't Gemini 0.25%?

yes or lower, https://gemini.com/fee-schedule/

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#122
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as you don't buy in at one of the speculative bubbles I'm not so sure about that. You could have bought BTC anytime before the past week or so and it would have appreciated significantly, regardless of whether you bought it in a peak or trough. It's just a question of magnitude. E.g. if you bought 1 BTC at the lowest or highest price in 2015 you would still have outrageous returns on it today. This is not t…

Let’s see how everyone feels after the next correction. The headlines today seem to change every time I load google news. Up 10%, down 20%. There’s no way to know where it will go from here.

Yes. But I already stated that in my response. We do not know the future and you shouldn't trust anyone who tells you differently.

My point is that there have been skeptics and people saying it's a bubble or too volatile for nearly all of Bitcoin's history. But if you bought BTC and held it--at any high or low, for any significant amount of time--you made a lot of money (either realized or unrealized, that doesn't matter).

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#123
post #93
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the past ~7 years, the price has increased by ~10^5. There have been some bubbles, for sure. But all that has paled over the past year. The price could crash, certainly. Still, if futures become available, it could spike a lot higher before it does.

And this is exactly what makes it a terrible store of value. As Wikipedia says, "The point of any store of value is risk management due to a stable demand for the underlying asset." Stable demand is definitely not a characteristic of Bitcoin.

one word: gold

no reason it stores value outside of the fact that we all agree that it does, and we all accept it for curreny. Bitcoin is at that point. It's turning into digital gold.

I agree with the original commenter. Looking at Bitcoin as a currency with terrible UX kept me from investing for the past years. Now it's going past inflection point - it's a store of value that will be acceptable everywhere soon.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#124
post #93
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the past ~7 years, the price has increased by ~10^5. There have been some bubbles, for sure. But all that has paled over the past year. The price could crash, certainly. Still, if futures become available, it could spike a lot higher before it does.

And this is exactly what makes it a terrible store of value. As Wikipedia says, "The point of any store of value is risk management due to a stable demand for the underlying asset." Stable demand is definitely not a characteristic of Bitcoin.

Yes, demand has overall increased dramatically since 2010. And it's still increasing. Perhaps dramatically. You can characterize that as unstable, if you like. But given that my mean cost basis is well under $1K, it's stable enough for me.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#125

Hopefully it's not cash settled like the CME. That is the worst idea ever, and will probably cause a lot of people to get screwed over by market manipulation. Especially since the CME is basing the cash settlement price on a single exchange: GDAX. Anyone can go to GDAX and crash or spike the price for one minute at 4:00pm any day and trigger a bunch of margin calls on the CME. Especially considering how easy it is to…

I disagree completely. Cash settled futures let people bet on bitcoin without ever touching bitcoin itself. For example, suppose I am a huge bitcoin hater and want to bet that bitcoin will go down 100% in the next 3 months. Why force me to worry about wallets, etc.? I just want to have a way to express my conviction without messing with all that stuff.

Lots of people trade physically settled commodities futures contracts without handling the underlying products. You just have to make sure you close or roll your position before it settles.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#126
post #46
post #35

Man, this is just weird. I just bought 0.05 Bitcoins (you know FOMO and all that) and it just feels so much more empty than back in the days when I mined them myself with my brand new dual Xeon CPU and later on was thinking grand thoughts and building little projects with epaper ink displays to display QR codes on small devices that would work on low bandwidth connections and maybe offline. Lots of problems to be sol…

I've always been a negative detractor of bitcoin. But then I realized the problem was it was marketed wrong. As a currency, it's a nightmare of a creation. But as a store of value, it's actually pretty good. As long as you don't buy in at one of the speculative bubbles (which admittedly is when the majority of people get in), it's been pretty good at more or less maintaining its value. As a non-physical thing, it's a…

Why can't people in Latin America just buy gold or dollars to store value ? I mean it's a circular argument. To say bitcoin is a store of value, there has to be an apriori reason why it has value. It can't be a store of value because it is. Right ?

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that demonstrates is that people dont care that much about txn fees. If they did, they would create segwit wallets.

Combined with the low transaction rate I would assume people don't care about Bitcoin as currency -- only as a rapidly appreciating asset. As long as the price keeps skyrocketing why would you ever spend any unless you had no other currency?

Not really. I have a bitcoin debit card. This essentially puts the money in my wallet into bitcoin. The way bitcoin has been doing over the past year, all it does is make everything reduce in price relative to the time I put the money in the wallet.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#129
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes me laugh and cry at the same time. Using tax dollars to bail out the big guys who bought derivatives based on a virtual currency would be such a cliche.

For all the complaining on HN about accredited investors, this is exacatly why they were invented in the first place: because there was too much speculative investment available to people who subsequently invested more than they could afford to lose. The big guys have the power to get a bailout but the small guys are the ones that starve to death because they can't.

That's all backwards. The little guys are supposed to need the protection. The big guys are said to be smart enough to know what they're doing and not need protection.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#130
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes me laugh and cry at the same time. Using tax dollars to bail out the big guys who bought derivatives based on a virtual currency would be such a cliche.

For all the complaining on HN about accredited investors, this is exacatly why they were invented in the first place: because there was too much speculative investment available to people who subsequently invested more than they could afford to lose. The big guys have the power to get a bailout but the small guys are the ones that starve to death because they can't.

And yet, it's the small guys's tax dollars bailing out. But the small guys's hardly net any of the profits if the big guys scheme succeeds.
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