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Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

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Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#121

Post by Johnny555 »

labster wrote: post #106
dawnbreez wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the solution is to buy a (much more expensive) phone from this specific competitor This sounds like advertising. Also, I'm fairly sure that Apple also sells data. Indeed, given current privacy laws, it's basically guaranteed that if a company has proprietary software, it is selling data from that software.

This sounds an awful lot like FUD. Care to back up any of those generalizations with evidence?

It's right there in their privacy policy, they already say that they can share your location and other "non-personal information" for any purpose. And it's a very small step from "occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, referrer URL, location" for a vendor to identify you.

If they weren't selling location information, then they could just say it:

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

Collection and Use of Non-Personal Information

We also collect data in a form that does not, on its own, permit direct association with any specific individual. We may collect, use, transfer, and disclose non-personal information for any purpose. The following are some examples of non-personal information that we collect and how we may use it:

We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, referrer URL, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behavior and improve our products, services, and advertising.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#122

Post by Larrikin »

dawnbreez wrote: post #111
lotso wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, I'm fairly sure that Apple also sells data. Can you point to a source that shows this? This sounds like a lie to me.

As mentioned in the reply to the sibling comment, we can't know for sure unless we have source code.

So instead we should wildly speculate with no evidence? I personally prefer my android phone and the only true advantage for iOS I see is that Apple actively fights for privacy.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#123

Post by as1mov »

IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

Or maybe buy a Android phone and flash AOSP without Play Services. As much as I like privacy, I am not tempted to buy a $700+ device which seems to be getting costlier and gimped with each new version.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#124

Post by as1mov »

pjmlp wrote: post #118
IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

> when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. It is only obvious when one enjoys a wealthy life. There are lots of countries out where people can barely afford something better than a feature phone, and when they do, their hard worked savings are just enough for an Android device.

It's really humbling to see what people in different living circumstances take for granted. Apparently privacy is the fundamental right only for the people who can afford a $700+ device.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#125

Post by tryingagainbro »

dawnbreez wrote: post #111
lotso wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, I'm fairly sure that Apple also sells data. Can you point to a source that shows this? This sounds like a lie to me.

As mentioned in the reply to the sibling comment, we can't know for sure unless we have source code.

>>we can't know for sure unless we have source code.

Maybe they're even promoting drug use to kids under 5...I mean it's possible.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#126

Post by gregman1 »

IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

Haha, Apple and infosec in the same sentence!

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#127

Post by amartya916 »

mikeash wrote: post #8
kop316 wrote: post #3

I am running Android 7.1.2. I remember in the older versions of android, when you turned off the GPS, it would have to manually sync the receiver and it would take minutes to get GPS lock. In the current version, when I turned off location services, there is no "dot" indicating your location on Google Maps, but it appears almost instantly when you turn it off. I have long suspected that Android has the "coarse locati…

There are other strategies for getting a lock faster. Most of the slowness for a cold start with a modern receiver is receiving the ephemeris data (i.e. where the satellites are at the moment), which is transmitted at a whopping 50 bits per second, and so takes about 30 seconds to receive. Once you have that, the rest comes quickly. Older receivers with less computational power and less clever techniques could take a…

Thank you (& kop316 for the parent comment) for taking the time to jot this down. It made for a fascinating read for someone like me who is ignorant about how these networks/connections work. Given Android's popularity/prevalence, do you think that for "coarse" location awareness, using Wi-FI Direct + Bluetooth for a local mesh with other Android devices is a possibility (basically, if one of the devices in the mesh has location data enabled, the rest have coarse location data)?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#128

Post by heimidal »

as1mov wrote: post #124
pjmlp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. It is only obvious when one enjoys a wealthy life. There are lots of countries out where people can barely afford something better than a feature phone, and when they do, their hard worked savings are just enough for an Android device.

It's really humbling to see what people in different living circumstances take for granted. Apparently privacy is the fundamental right only for the people who can afford a $700+ device.

I take your point, but I think it’s important to note that the iPhone SE is half that price. In India, it’s about $309 today.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#129

Post by rightos »

eknkc wrote: post #81
IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

I tell all my friends / family to get an iPhone if they are upgrading. I used iOS and Android phones and I like both. However it makes even me nerveous to use a banking application or similar on an Android. Can’t imagine what kind of shit my dad would have running on an Android device with all the fake fishing apps, bloatware, tracking etc going around. With a non jailbroken iPhone I have a lot more peace of mind.

> However it makes even me nerveous to use a banking application or similar on an Android. Can’t imagine what kind of shit my dad would have running on an Android device with all the fake fishing apps, bloatware, tracking etc going around.

Do these people not do banking on Windows machines? The malware situation was infinitely worse on Windows - I see an Android device with some unwanted ads maybe once a year from a friend or family member, but Windows devices are a weekly occurrence and the really nasty stuff - like password sealers and banking trojans do exist, but are extremely hard to come by on Android, compared to Windows where clicking a pop-up and a run button could leave you permanently infested.

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