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China’s AI Awakening

technologyreview.com

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Re: China’s AI Awakening

#121

Post by taobility »

nrhk wrote: post #98
eighthnate wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent point. But you have to factor in american companies international reach. Chinese companies dominate china and that is extremely lucrative, but american tech companies dominate europe and the americas and the rest of the world. Europe and at americas combined have a larger population than china and a geographical landmass 3X larger than china. The real question is why europe ( 800 million people ) and latin…

Is it though, your talking about a federation of democratic and culturally different nations to two locked down regimes with homogeneous societies. I don't think Europe could do what China and Russia did even if they tried.

German has the same policy.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#122

Post by icantdrive55 »

oblio wrote: post #99
eighthnate wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are leading in solar, renewable, nuclear, patents, electric vehicles, high speed rail, hydropower, # of cities, industrialization, # of new universities, etc. China is leading in pretty much everything right now. They are the top trading partner of pretty much every significant country. And they are planning on building another 100 cities in the next 10 years. It is ridiculous how much change china is going thro…

China was kind of domineering, but on a global historic scale they could be considered somewhat non-violent. They even got invaded twice while being the top economic power of their time. There are quite a few aspects I don't like about China, but warmongers, they are not. If anything, the modern era should be a boon to them, since developed countries are virtually conquerable at a certain scale, via modern technology…

We owe them a lot of money. They have a healthy military.

Every five to ten years they becomes bigger, better, stronger. (Yes--Steve Austin)

Subconsciously--the fear of China has been on my mind. I don't trust them on a lot of levels.

I'll get hammered for this, but we caused this by our greed. Yes--the whole cheapest way to make it.

I know this view is not popular; we are all equal. It just doesn't matter if family members died in wars. It doesn't matter that for a few decades we tried to emulate some of the better qualities of Christianity. (Yea--I know many weren't invited to the party--sorry.)

I just don't get, "I'll grow up in a relatively safe/moral society. Go to a fun university. Travel around without fear of kidnpping, or worse; and make a few extra bucks making my toys in the cheapest country when I become a 1 percenter."

Bring it on. I don't care anymore. I'm very liberal, but draw the line at being a sucker.

Anyways, I think what might be in our favor, is if we keep going in the direction I feel we are going; they might not want us?

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#123

Post by [deleted] »

paulfitz wrote: post #11
idibidiart wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one posted yesterday from OpenAI. Hierarchical learning. Also, DeepMind's relational NN. I can dig up others from memor after caffiene. DeepMind is at Google which is a Silicon Valley co. True about Canada, but salaries in Canada do not support retention of talent, so most end up in SV in the long run or get acquired by SV companies.

(DeepMind is part of the Alphabet group, true, but is based in London, with some research people in Canada and some applied people in California.)

[deleted]

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#124

Post by evilduck »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #79
LostInTheWoods2 wrote: post #75

The plan calls for homegrown AI to match that developed in the West within three years, for China’s researchers to be making “major breakthroughs” by 2025, and for Chinese AI to be the envy of the world by 2030. Really? Major breakthroughs can be mandated by a centralized government? Back in the 80s-90s, Americans were convinced that Japan was going to eat its lunch. It gives me some hope in knowing that we still suf…

US government basically mandated the Moon landings, and they happened within 12 years from Sputnik. So I'd say yes, sometimes a government can just mandate progress.

The US Gov also poured an absolutely ridiculous amount of money into the space race, peaking around 4.5% of the federal budget for a couple years.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#125

Post by timthelion »

elefanten wrote: post #68
timthelion wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that your pro-western nationalism is evil, because this dualism fails to see the nuance, that american corporatism is just as bad as Chinese state socialism. I up-voted you, however, because you stated your opinion in the open, rather than simply implying it. I'd far rather people like you be open in their belief that this is some sort of situation where one country wins and the other loses. I, however, bel…

This phrasing was really blunt and came off a bit rude. But there is a point there that shouldn't be written off. As far as choosing who the biggest and most powerful entity on the planet is, would you rather have one with more or less respect for the rights of individuals? Because, so far in human history, individual rights-based political formulations are the only ones that prevent arbitrary atrocities from being p…

Of course I am worried about the command structure of the entities most likely to acheive singularity, but this is all the more reason to fight against a nationalist, McCarthyist, "you traitor!" attitude which would lead America, in its competition with China, away from its liberal ideals and towards a more efficient command structure such as fascism or national corporatism.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#126

Post by NHQ »

skriticos2 wrote: post #115
NHQ wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to hazard some examples of the latter?

I can think of two: supply chain management (producing stuff more effectively) and market trend analysis (know what people will buy tomorrow - to build it when it's needed). The first involves a lot of people networking and dealing with the messy bits (hard) while the later is looking into the crystal ball with help of some data to extrapolate likely outcomes (somewhat hard). There is also logistics (again tons of me…

Thanks, I like crystal ball ideas.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#127

Post by seanmcdirmid »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #108

I'm getting a bit of a flashback to the Japanese Fifth Gneeration Computing project (I wasn't around back then; I've read about it though). Then, too, an East Asian country (Japan) known for excellence in one field (manufacturing) initiated a state-funded research project into a promising technology (AI). Then, too, the West reacted with alarm, fearing the Asians would leave them in the dust. Then, too, the project w…

I wonder if the late 80s are repeating themselves in more ways than one. Huge domestic asset bubble waiting to pop including massive speculation in foreign real estate, and perhaps even a 3rd AI winter? It doesn’t have to happen the same way, of course.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#128

Post by seanmcdirmid »

indescions_2017 wrote: post #39

Hmmm. MIT Tech Review now behind cognito-only browser shield? Is that new? What's really interesting is the continued trend of cashless WeChat Pay adoption in China versus say trickling Digital Payments penetration here in USA. I actually just had to order a new replacement set of paper checks. And its simply due to the fact that so many small merchants cite higher credit card fees as a reason for preferring cash or…

I haven’t used a personal check states side in many many years; I don’t even bother ordering them anymore going for a cashiers check on the rare case I need a check for something. And when was the last time you went to an ATM in the states, maybe once every 6 months?

In contrast, up until a few years ago, I had to bring a backpack full of 100 RMB notes to pay my rent every 3 months. China has made a transition for sure, but don’t forget the local problems they were solving (poor penetration of UnionPay, poor online payment facilities). And online retail and a godsend when you consider the horrible state owned department store system and anemic brick and mortar retail clones they replaced.

Chinese companies will probably change the game in china, it as long as they are focused and limited to local problems, I don’t see how it will effect the west very much.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#129

Post by danmaz74 »

ww520 wrote: post #56
monkmartinez wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...but anyone sitting here scoffing that China can’t make itself a world leader in a field by simply pouring money and support onto the problem needs a serious history lesson. They have before, and there is every indiction they will again, here with this. What are they currently leading?

One example where they poured money and got ahead is the rail system and the high speed rail system.

That is a proven technology though. A completely different case.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#130

Post by seanmcdirmid »

eighthnate wrote: post #86
strin wrote: post #83

Another competitive advantage of China is data. China has 1.4B population, and nearly everyone in the country owns a mobile phone. This will contribute data 3-4 times larger than US. Considering second-order interactions (network effect), the data could be an order of magnitude larger. Chinese citizen also seems less concerned about their privacy. I've talked to one of the largest chat platforms in China, and they se…

Excellent point. But you have to factor in american companies international reach. Chinese companies dominate china and that is extremely lucrative, but american tech companies dominate europe and the americas and the rest of the world. Europe and at americas combined have a larger population than china and a geographical landmass 3X larger than china. The real question is why europe ( 800 million people ) and latin…

Recent emeeging internet markets in china’s backyard like Myanmar and Cambodia are even more dominated by western internet companies. To the average Cambodian, internet means YouTube and Facebook. Chinese companies are completely MIA.
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