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Interview with Susan Fowler

nytimes.com

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Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#121

Post by wyldfire »

fpoijasw wrote: post #56

Hey engineer at Uber here. I'm a male engineer started working at Uber two years ago. I'm seeing a lot of comments here that is discrediting Susan Fowler's accomplishments in taking TK down, and I would like to correct the notion that the culture/TK himself/Waymo is what brought TK down. To preface I've work both at Google as an engineer, and frankly speaking the engineering culture at Uber didn't differ all that muc…

> ... Ubers a great place to work now.

Male engineer (not at Uber) checking in. I find myself pretty astonished at these reports of other men's behavior. And yet, it seems to be widespread enough that some women indicate it's not as rare as we might think.

So, regarding "Uber's a great place to work now" -- is that based on testimony you've heard from women there? Because if not, I'd wonder whether you really have enough evidence to make a claim like that.

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#122

Post by paul7986 »

fpoijasw wrote: post #114
abalone wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Waymo lawsuit only happened when it did and only effective as it was because of the chaos Susan Fowler initiated. This seems a bit much. Why on earth would Google wait to sue? Their case was not at all dependent on internal turmoil at Uber. Fowler deserves a lot of credit but there was significant chaos pre-blog-post (#deleteuber) and after (Greyball). Uber was having a new crisis every other week it seemed, al…

I think there's a misunderstanding of TKs character. At least internally, whenever there was a critcism externally against Uber whether it be deleteuber or greyball our engineering team only grew more determined. The more backlash from the media it made us closer together and stronger. TK was the most inspirational after external media attack and even after Waymos lawsuit he displayed vigor and confidence that we are…

Wow you sound like a disciple of Kalapick's and or someone who is waiting to get rich off working at UBer via stock options or something else!

I hate Uber so much and I'm so glad to see Lyft jumping up the app store charts. Uber let 1k get stolen from me and 1000s of others and their response was basically laughing at us; customers who trusted them with their bank accounts. Their blind arrogance is disgusting and Im so glad to see it's biting them in the butt!

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#123

Post by solidsnack9000 »

kajecounterhack wrote: post #9
solidsnack9000 wrote: post #5

Her background is pretty non-traditional. Such people tend to be independent and consequently have a lot of integrity -- they do the career destroying things that almost nobody does. The only woman on the board then, Arianna Huffington, who had vowed that the culture of “brilliant jerks” must end, had been trying to help Mr. Kalanick by advising him to sleep more and meditate. But he caused another kerfuffle when he…

"Her background is pretty non-traditional. Such people tend to be independent and consequently have a lot of integrity" Uh is that something you can support with facts? She's just an independent person with integrity. I don't see how it has to be a consequence of what you qualify as a "non-traditional background."

It has been my observation over a few years of working but it is ultimately no more than that — a personal observation.

For facts I could list people I have known or read about — but that is just anecdata, and my direct observations are not subject to verification. How would one structure a good solid study on integrity, to get solid facts of this kind? The absence of such a methodology does not, unfortunately, mean we don’t have to think hard about people and integrity.

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#124

Post by whitemale »

wyldfire wrote: post #121
fpoijasw wrote: post #56

Hey engineer at Uber here. I'm a male engineer started working at Uber two years ago. I'm seeing a lot of comments here that is discrediting Susan Fowler's accomplishments in taking TK down, and I would like to correct the notion that the culture/TK himself/Waymo is what brought TK down. To preface I've work both at Google as an engineer, and frankly speaking the engineering culture at Uber didn't differ all that muc…

> ... Ubers a great place to work now. Male engineer (not at Uber) checking in. I find myself pretty astonished at these reports of other men's behavior. And yet, it seems to be widespread enough that some women indicate it's not as rare as we might think. So, regarding "Uber's a great place to work now" -- is that based on testimony you've heard from women there? Because if not, I'd wonder whether you really have en…

Ask yourself the following questions:

- would you intentionally treat women badly?

- are you responsible for the actions of other men?

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#125

Post by dang »

paul7986 wrote: post #122
fpoijasw wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a misunderstanding of TKs character. At least internally, whenever there was a critcism externally against Uber whether it be deleteuber or greyball our engineering team only grew more determined. The more backlash from the media it made us closer together and stronger. TK was the most inspirational after external media attack and even after Waymos lawsuit he displayed vigor and confidence that we are…

Wow you sound like a disciple of Kalapick's and or someone who is waiting to get rich off working at UBer via stock options or something else! I hate Uber so much and I'm so glad to see Lyft jumping up the app store charts. Uber let 1k get stolen from me and 1000s of others and their response was basically laughing at us; customers who trusted them with their bank accounts. Their blind arrogance is disgusting and Im…

This crosses into personal attack, which is not allowed here. I'm sorry you had that negative experience, but please don't direct it at fellow community members.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#126

Post by fpoijasw »

wyldfire wrote: post #121
fpoijasw wrote: post #56

Hey engineer at Uber here. I'm a male engineer started working at Uber two years ago. I'm seeing a lot of comments here that is discrediting Susan Fowler's accomplishments in taking TK down, and I would like to correct the notion that the culture/TK himself/Waymo is what brought TK down. To preface I've work both at Google as an engineer, and frankly speaking the engineering culture at Uber didn't differ all that muc…

> ... Ubers a great place to work now. Male engineer (not at Uber) checking in. I find myself pretty astonished at these reports of other men's behavior. And yet, it seems to be widespread enough that some women indicate it's not as rare as we might think. So, regarding "Uber's a great place to work now" -- is that based on testimony you've heard from women there? Because if not, I'd wonder whether you really have en…

It's not really a claim, just my personal opinion. I mean there are women engineers who I talked to and they definitely most agree it's better. We all agree on one thing. Ubers a completely different company. Ask anyone that works here.

There are some who I've spoken with that told me that their previous company (think Google/Facebook/Microsoft caliber companies) which had worse culture of misogyny even compared to pre Susan Fowler Uber.

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#127

Post by akulbe »

fpoijasw wrote: post #56

Hey engineer at Uber here. I'm a male engineer started working at Uber two years ago. I'm seeing a lot of comments here that is discrediting Susan Fowler's accomplishments in taking TK down, and I would like to correct the notion that the culture/TK himself/Waymo is what brought TK down. To preface I've work both at Google as an engineer, and frankly speaking the engineering culture at Uber didn't differ all that muc…

Let me make something abundantly clear here.

There's absolutely ZERO discrediting of Susan being done in my comment that TK is responsible for his own downfall. I'm being completely misunderstood here.

My desire is simply to ascribe blame and responsibility where I believe it lies - at TK's feet.

If TK had not behaved as he had, and a. cast a blind eye to the offenses against Susan, and b. engendered a culture where others continue to deny and sweep offenses under the carpet, none of this would have happened.

Susan would not have been the victim of such awful treatment. It is so good to see her get out of there, and thrive after all that's happened!

YES it's good that she blew the whistle, but it's STILL HIS FAULT and HE is his own undoing.

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#128

Post by skybrian »

BadassFractal wrote: post #112
skybrian wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying it's "fundamental hardwiring" is not science, it's speculation at best. Figuring out what's cultural versus genetic in humans is a difficult scientific problem that can't be solved by vague analogy to other species. If you want to be "real" just avoid pseudo-scientific claims altogether. If you think there's science behind something at least cite a paper.

Not posting links to papers also doesn't automatically make what I said any less true.

True or not, it means that between two strangers on the Internet, there's no reason to believe you.

"Why do you think that?" "Someone in an Internet forum said so."

Nobody does that.

Telling stories from personal experience sometimes works. (Take Susan Fowler's essay for example.) Linking to articles from credible sources can work (for example, the NYT article). Asserting scientific statements without backing it up doesn't.

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#129

Post by linkregister »

albedoa wrote: post #92
linkregister wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that Susan Fowler is the single most influential individual in Uber's history, even more so than Travis Kalanick. 1. #deleteuber was a flash in the pan. It fizzled because it was based on a falsehood, that Uber had broken an airport strike by cancelling surge. Uber cancels surge for all notable events. Lyft somehow avoided judgement, despite also failing to honor the strike. The impetus behind the campaign wa…

> #deleteuber was a flash in the pan. It fizzled because it was based on a falsehood, that Uber had broken an airport strike by cancelling surge. Uber cancels surge for all notable events. Not to get too caught up on this, but #deleteuber was in response to them being perceived as breaking the strike by operating at the airport at all . So the fact that they cancel surge for all events wasn't accepted as an excuse. C…

I believe that it’s likely that neither company was aware of the strike until it had already begun.

Re: Interview with Susan Fowler

#130

Post by CaptainZapp »

linkregister wrote: post #71
abalone wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Waymo lawsuit only happened when it did and only effective as it was because of the chaos Susan Fowler initiated. This seems a bit much. Why on earth would Google wait to sue? Their case was not at all dependent on internal turmoil at Uber. Fowler deserves a lot of credit but there was significant chaos pre-blog-post (#deleteuber) and after (Greyball). Uber was having a new crisis every other week it seemed, al…

I think that Susan Fowler is the single most influential individual in Uber's history, even more so than Travis Kalanick. 1. #deleteuber was a flash in the pan. It fizzled because it was based on a falsehood, that Uber had broken an airport strike by cancelling surge. Uber cancels surge for all notable events. Lyft somehow avoided judgement, despite also failing to honor the strike. The impetus behind the campaign wa…

  2. Greyball is a multi-million dollar suit, it will likely be settled for less. Because Uber was only foolish enough to abuse it in a couple of cities
For starters: It cost them their license in London. Transport for London didn't look kindly at those shenaginas and apparently didn't believe Uber that they didn't employ those dirty tricks in London.

What's the source for Uber only abusing it in a couple cities? Uber?

The problem with that is that Uber is one of the utterly least trustworthy companies in existence. I, for one, assume that the lie by default, whenever they make a statement.

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