The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#121

Post by cbanek » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 8:10 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #63

... Medical Advertising Hall of Fame... This is a real thing.[1] They really give out awards for medical advertising. Typical writeup: "Ambien dominated the insomnia market like few products ever have. Our goal was to introduce a new way of thinking about sleep, and to introduce Rozerem as a new option for the treatment of insomnia. In order to take down Goliath, Rozerem needed to spend BIG. $200 million in broadcast…

I feel like the push to TV advertising and advertising to patients started after regulations slowing drug companies from taking doctors on vacations (think country clubs, hotels, cruises, golf) and working on them directly.

I remember when all sorts of pens, mugs, and all that would be given out with drug names on it, and then my doctor would end up giving it to me.

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/for-doctors-no-mor...

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/New-rules-ba...

The purpose and the money don't go away, the means just move around.

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#122

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 8:13 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #47

DanBC wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > In 2015, 85 million people used prescription opioids legally, and there were ~200 million legal prescriptions. In a country of 350 million people this right here is all the evidence you need: it's obvious that US opioid prescribing is abusive.

You know what country has the highest opioid use per capita? Canada! You know why? Codeine is available OTC. However I don't know many people that went from codeine to heroin.

[deleted]

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#123

Post by wavefunction » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 8:15 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #101

jsolson wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's tied up in a bunch of other bits like not eating pork and worshipping a particular deity. The secular quip raises the same questions about human motivations without the other baggage.

Because clearly George Steinbrenner is a better moral teacher than Jesus.

Jesus didn't talk about eating pork or not though.

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#124

Post by fmihaila » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 8:16 PM UTC

joering2 wrote: post #117

nsedlet wrote: post #18

The Sacklers have ingratiated themselves at the highest levels of society using a fortune that's at best built on a product of dubious value, and at worst obtained at the cost of the lives of tens of thousands of people. I think this piece points to a big problem: we worship money and those that accumulate it, and often ignore the question of how much societal value was created in exchange for it. The least we can co…

I definitely don't wanna play devils advocate for these scumbags, but can't you apply your logic to basically any product? I mean, Coca-Cola. Its at best product of dubious value, and at worst produced for the need for sugar by tens of thousands of people.

It's not clear that Coca Cola is just "any product". I think the "at worst" part of your characterization of it is actually right on. It can be argued that the damage inflicted on society by excessive sugar consumption, of which Coca Cola is a most prominent promoter and beneficiary, is much larger than that caused by opioids (which is already huge).

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#125

Post by wavefunction » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 8:18 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #84

herodotus wrote: post #15

In my experience with local philanthropy, there are donors who have no interest in "naming opportunities" and those for whom it is all about the name. To me it says a lot about the character of the donor if they specifically want as little fuss as possible about the donation, and especially if they do not want something named after them. It is the cause they support, not their own egos. Personally, the more often I s…

I see where you're coming from, but consider the effects public philanthropy has. Bill & Melinda Gates, for example, have become role models, changing the cultural norms of behaviour for the super rich. Warren Buffet's addition to their foundation can be directly linked to their efforts, but there are without a doubt hundreds more following their lead less explicitly. Zuckerberg comes to mind (although I'm not sure h…

I thought it was Buffet that helped bring Bill Gates around to charity rather than vice versa, with Melinda the primary driver in the Gates' philanthropy.

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#126

Post by wavefunction » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

fmihaila wrote: post #124

joering2 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely don't wanna play devils advocate for these scumbags, but can't you apply your logic to basically any product? I mean, Coca-Cola. Its at best product of dubious value, and at worst produced for the need for sugar by tens of thousands of people.

It's not clear that Coca Cola is just "any product". I think the "at worst" part of your characterization of it is actually right on. It can be argued that the damage inflicted on society by excessive sugar consumption, of which Coca Cola is a most prominent promoter and beneficiary, is much larger than that caused by opioids (which is already huge).

Coca Cola and its business associates are involved in actually killing people with guns so you can add that to their 'passive body counts.

http://killercoke.org/

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#127

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 8:21 PM UTC

andreasgonewild wrote: post #49

I was on Oxy for about a month after smashing one of my vertibraes into pieces in a climbing accident, I was prescribed more than three times as much. I walked through hell to get out of that crap; nothing else I've encountered even comes close, including heroine and cocaine. There are several natural, less addictive and less harmful methods for treating chronic pain; cannabis, mushrooms and meditation among others.…

Still amazed that US doctors prescribe oxycontin to patients that aren't suffering from late stage cancer pain and other conditions where addiction isn't really an issue.

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#128

Post by cwyers » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 8:23 PM UTC

savanaly wrote: post #99

cwyers wrote: post #24

I'm reminded of that line from Chinatown. "Why are you doing it? How much better can you eat? What can you buy that you can't already afford?" Is there really no point of diminishing returns, where you can tell yourself you've made enough money?

It's all about perspective. To a third world citizen, that statement applies to the lifestyle of a middle class american. To us, having a second jet seems like a ludicrous luxury. To them, having a second car probably seems like just as ludicrous a luxury.

So, I feel like you haven't seen the movie. It's being posed by an investigator to a man who has committed murder, who is engaged in fraud and worse, who is conspiring to have dozens of farmers go bankrupt and lose their livelihoods. It's not a question of perspective. It's a question of, what kind of a person are you and why?

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#129

Post by vasilipupkin » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 8:30 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #47

DanBC wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > In 2015, 85 million people used prescription opioids legally, and there were ~200 million legal prescriptions. In a country of 350 million people this right here is all the evidence you need: it's obvious that US opioid prescribing is abusive.

You know what country has the highest opioid use per capita? Canada! You know why? Codeine is available OTC. However I don't know many people that went from codeine to heroin.

OTC Codeine is much weaker and is sold in much smaller doses than oxy.

Re: The Family Making Billions from the Opioid Crisis

#130

Post by vasilipupkin » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 8:32 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #34

DanBC wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > In 2015, 85 million people used prescription opioids legally, and there were ~200 million legal prescriptions. In a country of 350 million people this right here is all the evidence you need: it's obvious that US opioid prescribing is abusive.

I've been prescribed opiates twice in my life, once after wisdom teeth removal and once after breaking my ankle. I'm sure I counted in the 85 million figure for that year despite never actually taking the drugs, as the pain was not bad enough to merit them. I wish doctors were less liberal about prescribing these serious drugs. It should be messaged as "If the pain is really unbearable, even with standard over-the-co…

Your case is probably a legitimate case and most people probably would not get addicted after short term limited usage. The problem is prescribing it for more longer term situations.