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Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

nytimes.com

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Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#121

Post by djsumdog »

mariodiana wrote: post #102
refurb wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do some google searches about wolves as pets and it's fascinating. Domesticated dogs adjust quite readily to a pack pecking order. Wolves will with a lot of training, but they never stop trying for the top spot. It's a constant battle. Also, if their pack leader looks sick or injured, the wolf will take that a signal to make a move for top spot. I've heard of owners twisting an ankle and hobbling around and t…

"That's not to say wolves can't be pets […]" Is it just me, because everything you've just said seems to suggest that wolves can't be pets.

Exactly. Wolves should never be pets. Dogs evolved to be easily domesticated and dog breeders have continued to favor those traits.

I'm really against most types of exotic pet. Large cats need a lot of room, as do wolves. There are many cases of exotic pets turning on their owners. It's really unfair to the animals.

Unless you really know what you're doing and have a significant amount of time to invest, avoid exotic pets. They can be very dangerous and turn on you. Humans have spent a lot of time domesticating the animals we keep today.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#122

Post by sillysaurus3 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #119
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wolf biting the children may be related to being raised in an environment that included brutally murdering other animals at the owner's whim. We can't know whether that matters.

> We can't know whether that matters Not from this anecdote, but there is research on the topic. Studying puppies at 3, 4 and 5 weeks of age: “compared to wolves, dogs tended to display more communicative signals that could potentially facilitate social interactions, such as distress vocalization, tail wagging, and gazing at the humans’ face. In contrast to dog puppies, wolf pups showed aggressive behavior toward a f…

You could say the same thing about introverts. (I promise that's a genuinely thoughtful point, not an offhand dismissal.)

Research into the question of whether wolves are different will discover that wolves are different.

I appreciate the cite, but it isn't evidence that wolves will maul children just because they're ambitious. Maybe they do; maybe you're right. All we can say for certain is that we don't know.

I think you could make the same points about lions, yet there is evidence of lions loving their owners and treating them with the same emotional bonds as a family member.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#123

Post by JumpCrisscross »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #122
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can't know whether that matters Not from this anecdote, but there is research on the topic. Studying puppies at 3, 4 and 5 weeks of age: “compared to wolves, dogs tended to display more communicative signals that could potentially facilitate social interactions, such as distress vocalization, tail wagging, and gazing at the humans’ face. In contrast to dog puppies, wolf pups showed aggressive behavior toward a f…

You could say the same thing about introverts. (I promise that's a genuinely thoughtful point, not an offhand dismissal.) Research into the question of whether wolves are different will discover that wolves are different. I appreciate the cite, but it isn't evidence that wolves will maul children just because they're ambitious. Maybe they do; maybe you're right. All we can say for certain is that we don't know. I thi…

> it isn't evidence that wolves will maul children just because they're ambitious

I agree, the research doesn’t say this. It says wolves offer a lower tolerance for making mistakes, a higher cost when things go wrong and fewer aids (e.g. picking up on intonation, instinctive subservience) to help you along.

You can do it. (Our ancestors did.) You’ll just have an animal vying for your seat in the pack, because it honestly thinks (warning: anthropomorphising) it can do a better job than your weak, debilitated ass in promoting the survival of its pack. Which it sees as much as its as much as it is yours. If someone is okay with that, fine. But understand the risks, that lots of people who thought they understood the risks didn’t, and that the worst-case outcome involves your animal killing someone’s kid or having to be put down because of your hubris.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#124

Post by sillysaurus3 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #123
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same thing about introverts. (I promise that's a genuinely thoughtful point, not an offhand dismissal.) Research into the question of whether wolves are different will discover that wolves are different. I appreciate the cite, but it isn't evidence that wolves will maul children just because they're ambitious. Maybe they do; maybe you're right. All we can say for certain is that we don't know. I thi…

> it isn't evidence that wolves will maul children just because they're ambitious I agree, the research doesn’t say this. It says wolves offer a lower tolerance for making mistakes, a higher cost when things go wrong and fewer aids ( e.g. picking up on intonation, instinctive subservience) to help you along. You can do it. (Our ancestors did.) You’ll just have an animal vying for your seat in the pack, because it hon…

Ah, I didn't mean to give the impression that owning a wolf would be a good idea. It's certainly perilous, just like living with a tiger.

I just think they can love you in their own way. If someone wants to explore the question, and they're doing so safely and only risking themselves, then it's probably no one else's business.

On the other hand, it's hard to imagine how that could be done safely, so I concede. Thanks for the interesting debate.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#125

Post by sandworm101 »

stevenwoo wrote: post #108
sandworm101 wrote: post #37

Interesting, but they are missing half the genetic story. Being around us changed wolf genes to turn them into dogs. But being around wolves also changed our genes. The humans that could best interact with wolves/dogs had an evolutionary advantage. We dont think wolf pups are cute because they look like our own babies. We protect them becausd at a primal level we know them a valuable survival tool. The ability to loo…

Don't most humans find most baby mammals cute? We could speculate maybe there's some evolutionary reason that mammal babies are cute to other mammals (for which they are not prey animals). http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zc8bgk7

Maybe us finding them all cute comes from our adaptation to find puppies cute. Our willingness to protect baby mammals might have first appeared re wolves, then allowing us to start domesticating others too.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#126

Post by pmiller2 »

derefr wrote: post #67
refurb wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do some google searches about wolves as pets and it's fascinating. Domesticated dogs adjust quite readily to a pack pecking order. Wolves will with a lot of training, but they never stop trying for the top spot. It's a constant battle. Also, if their pack leader looks sick or injured, the wolf will take that a signal to make a move for top spot. I've heard of owners twisting an ankle and hobbling around and t…

I'm curious—do people get "pet" wolves spayed/neutered? Because that basically sounds like the behaviour of non-neutered cats; it goes away completely when their gonads do.

What kind of vet is going to neuter a "pet" wolf?

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#127

Post by mikestew »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #82
partiallypro wrote: post #74

I wonder if wolves have been raised in tandem with dogs, which some zoos do with their tour animals have had any success. Or if the natural inclination of the wolf is to prove alpha status, though perhaps it would be less so if they were the opposite sex and you let the dog initiate human contact.

The alpha thing has been soundly disproven.

Soundly disproven for domesticated dogs, not wolves.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#128

Post by mikestew »

thebulgar wrote: post #110
majestik wrote: post #35

TLDR: This just in, wolves != dogs

Wolves, dogs, and coyotes are all the same species and can produce viable, fertile offspring when interbred with one another. "Wolf," "dog," and "coyote" are just social constructs.

"Wolf," "dog," and "coyote" are just social constructs.

Given the immense body of data saying otherwise, it is my hope that your post is the most ignorant thing I’ll read today.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#129

Post by blacksmythe »

derefr wrote: post #69
Animats wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not one of our domestic animals can be named which has not in some country drooping ears. Neither cats nor horses have drooping ears, except for ones that have serious birth defects or mutations.

We've never prized docility in horses the way we do in other "pets"; in most cases, we've either bred them to be easily-spooked speed monsters (race horses; courier horses), or angry muscular bulls (war horses.) And there has never really been any kind of long-term eugenics project for cats; they mostly domesticated themselves, which had different results. There are no "work cats" that we've selectively bred with oth…

Horses are very much domesticated. It was probably very difficult, requiring many generations of breeding.

By comparison, zebras are very hard to work with.

http://theconversation.com/why-zebra-refused-to-be-saddled-w... "In many ways, zebra appear very like horses (or ponies, given their size). Yet underlying differences in behaviour have meant that while horses and donkeys have been successfully domesticated, the zebra remains predominantly wild... Horses were initially kept as a food animal."

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#130

Post by bitcoindoubt »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #124
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it isn't evidence that wolves will maul children just because they're ambitious I agree, the research doesn’t say this. It says wolves offer a lower tolerance for making mistakes, a higher cost when things go wrong and fewer aids ( e.g. picking up on intonation, instinctive subservience) to help you along. You can do it. (Our ancestors did.) You’ll just have an animal vying for your seat in the pack, because it hon…

Ah, I didn't mean to give the impression that owning a wolf would be a good idea. It's certainly perilous, just like living with a tiger. I just think they can love you in their own way. If someone wants to explore the question, and they're doing so safely and only risking themselves, then it's probably no one else's business. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine how that could be done safely, so I concede. Thanks…

I made a throwaway just to say that you're incredibly retarded.
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