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The web at maximum FPS: How WebRender gets rid of jank

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Re: The web at maximum FPS: How WebRender gets rid of jank

#121

Post by hajile »

epmaybe wrote: post #36
pohl wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Radeon Pro 560 on my MacBook Pro can draw "up to 75W". I don't know anything about how it manages power, but I do recall that Apple recommended in a WWDC session on writing energy-efficient apps that one should be careful to not trigger the discrete GPU when the integrated Intel GPU is sufficient. So that leads to another question: on my machine, which GPU would Webrender be using? I suppose I could find out expe…

Since the 15" MBP charger can deliver up to 87W, if you have full power draw on the MBP will you actually not be able to fully supply power over AC? I assume that the CPU also takes up around 20-30W.

The bigger issue is that mac cooling is usually very small. You'll run into thermal throttling long before you can dissipate a 75w TDP.

Re: The web at maximum FPS: How WebRender gets rid of jank

#122

Post by amelius »

aneutron wrote: post #118
amelius wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about energy use? PS: And my second point?

There is a comment in this thread that explains this very well. 1) So the average CPU can do arroung several GFLOPS, the GPU however, even the integrated, can do some TFLOPS. S 2) CPUs have syncronization primitives, re-ordering, execution permissions, all sorts of besides the task ops they have to enforce. GPUs for the most part do not care about any of that. From 1 and 2, you could spending 16ms classically renderi…

To come back to my second point, let's say we make a webpage arbitrarily more complex. Where does the tipping point lie, where compositing would become more favorable (in terms of time and energy) than repainting everything on every frame?

Also, what (time and energy) savings could compositing bring if implemented on the GPU? (versus repainting everything on the GPU).

Re: The web at maximum FPS: How WebRender gets rid of jank

#123

Post by richardwhiuk »

fb03 wrote: post #108
pimeys wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working professionally with Rust for a year now. When I got over the first wall, it has become the best tool I've had for creating backend applications. I have history with at least nine different languages during my professional career, but nothing comes close giving the confidence and ergonomics than the tools Rust ecosystem provides. Firefox, especially the new Quantum version is awesome. But Rust as a s…

nice! can you talk more about Rust's tooling? How do you debug? What IDE or text editor do you feel comfy with? Do you have/use/need autocomplete? I'm coming from a a Python background and I'm too spoiled by Pycharm's insane tooling and autocomplete and stuff.. I wanna trail de Rust path too! thanks in advance.

Rust with VSCode and RLS gives pretty good code auto-complete.

Re: The web at maximum FPS: How WebRender gets rid of jank

#124

Post by Rusky »

fb03 wrote: post #108
pimeys wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working professionally with Rust for a year now. When I got over the first wall, it has become the best tool I've had for creating backend applications. I have history with at least nine different languages during my professional career, but nothing comes close giving the confidence and ergonomics than the tools Rust ecosystem provides. Firefox, especially the new Quantum version is awesome. But Rust as a s…

nice! can you talk more about Rust's tooling? How do you debug? What IDE or text editor do you feel comfy with? Do you have/use/need autocomplete? I'm coming from a a Python background and I'm too spoiled by Pycharm's insane tooling and autocomplete and stuff.. I wanna trail de Rust path too! thanks in advance.

Not pimeys, but VSCode with the RLS plugin has pretty good IDE functionality.

Personally I tend to use Vim out of habit, and debug in Visual Studio. I might switch at some point for RLS (or try to hook it up to Vim).

Re: The web at maximum FPS: How WebRender gets rid of jank

#125

Post by Brakenshire »

sp332 wrote: post #69
steveklabnik wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox 57 doesn’t have WebRender on unless you explicitly turn it on; did you? It would be reasonale not to, as it’s still kinda buggy.

I think it's still in Nightly which is 58 now. I'm running 57 beta on Win10 and my about:support page says "unavailable by runtime: Build doesn't include WebRender".

I think WebRender is still off by default in 58 Nightly.

Re: The web at maximum FPS: How WebRender gets rid of jank

#127

Post by steveklabnik »

fb03 wrote: post #111
fjksksvdjsjd wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s good. Net/http is still less mature, but this an absolutey massive golang ecosystem. You can certainly write http clients and servers today. Unicode, string processing, regex—all of these have performant, stable implementations, either in std or in crates. Recently i’ve been doing audio processing in rust; the code there is at least as good as the equivalent in go. Overall I’d say I haven’t had issues finding a…

Can you tell me about your audio coding endeavours in Rust? Are you into writing VSTs or stuff? I've been reading more and more about Rust and while I've fallen in love with its premises I still fail to tackle the real world task of starting to do stuff with it. Would you give me some pointers? I work with Python and C professionally and have more than 15 years coding backend stuff for un*x systems, to give you some…

If you're into audio, http://www.tzaeru.com/squeezing-rust-into-production-part-2/ was posted recently, and is about production Rust audio stuff.

Re: The web at maximum FPS: How WebRender gets rid of jank

#128

Post by sturmen »

madez wrote: post #113

Why are they so obsessed with 60 fps? 120 fps looks considerably better, and there are other effects like smear and judder that significantly decrease even with significantly higher frame rates, say 480 fps [1]. [1] http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/down-the-vr-rabbit-hol...

As everyone said, 60fps is not the destination but merely a waypoint. It's a good goal, considering 99% of screens that are in use today refresh at 60 Hz or their regional equivalent. Higher refresh rates are next.

Re: The web at maximum FPS: How WebRender gets rid of jank

#129

Post by alex_duf »

metajack wrote: post #86
kadal wrote: post #71

Re: HW Acceleration Is this going to work at all on Linux?

We specifically target integrated GPUs, and several of the main developers work on linux using Intel GPUs with open source drivers. There's every reason to think this will be amazing on Linux.

This is making me happy! Thanks!

Re: The web at maximum FPS: How WebRender gets rid of jank

#130

Post by zenojevski »

amelius wrote: post #106
aneutron wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, virtually every device the average grade consumer uses, has a GPU. For instance, even Atom processors have GPUs. Granted, they don't have as much cores as a full-fledged nVidia GPU, nor as much dedicated memory, but they are still GPU with several tens of cores and specialized APIs that were designed specifically for the tasks at hand. Plus, they offload (ish) the CPU.

How about energy use? PS: And my second point?

Energy use _should_ go down overall, as the CPU takes more time to perform this type of task, compared to a GPU.
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