Live data from Hacker News

More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

bloomberg.com

121–130 of 298 posts

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any recent studies that crunch the numbers on how much that would cost? Because as a debt free college grad earning ~16000 pre tax I'm still willing to commit a fair amount, call it 500 a year? but I have no idea if that's even close to enough if we assume it's progressive at the same rate as income tax.

it may cost more than just dollars and cents. I worry that the adage of "you get what you pay for" may start to apply.

I don't know if there are many countries with fully subsidized college but there are at least a few who don't seem to see any worse outcomes than the US's existing partial subsidization by loans and grants.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#122
post #110

With constantly rising real estate prices, this is hardly surprising. Rent is crazy. Time to switch to free high education system.

Are there any recent studies that crunch the numbers on how much that would cost? Because as a debt free college grad earning ~16000 pre tax I'm still willing to commit a fair amount, call it 500 a year? but I have no idea if that's even close to enough if we assume it's progressive at the same rate as income tax.

It depends on how many people you let go to college.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#123
post #108

I hate sounding both old and weird but I cannot shake the feeling that much of the claims of economic health and growth in the US is... if not fake (I’m not totally nuts) but not accurate. My most charitable interpretation if I’m right is that we’re using the wrong metrics (possibly intentionally) that give a distorted view of the economy. But I keep hearing employment is great, productivity is great, stock market is…

Maybe what that means is that the economy (or perhaps society in general) is/are changing in ways that are genuinely new, and our understanding of it is lagging behind.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say with my "charitable interpretation", you articulated it much better.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#125
post #110

With constantly rising real estate prices, this is hardly surprising. Rent is crazy. Time to switch to free high education system.

You don't even need it to be free if you fix the loans. In my country student loans are interest free but indexed with CPI and compulsory repayments are only taken from your tax once your income is above about 42k USD. Even then, the compulsory repayment amount is based on how much you're above the threshold. No-one really even notices that they're repaying their loans.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#127
post #37
post #17

In a nutshell, as a generic reasoning, say that a few years ago the student loan was about US$ 100,000 and once you got the degree you had - on average - a higher pay of around US$ 10,000 per year (net). You could repay it in 10 years time while living at the same level of your non-graduated friends. Now say that the student loan averages US$ 150,000 and - still on average - the increase in annual wages is US$ 7,500…

Speaking of lessened "value" of degrees, University's need to be held accountable for some of the debt that they are encouraging students to take on. For example, at my public university, STEM students were charges several thousand dollars a year more than humanities students. STEM programs also did their best to discourage enrollment. Meanwhile the anthropology department is literally begging students to stay and ge…

> STEM students were charges several thousand dollars a year more than humanities students.

That actually seems more equitable to me than what happens at some other schools, where everyone pays the same credit-hour rate no matter what course they take.

Teaching STEM courses, intuitively, seems like it should cost more. The pool of professors and TAs is smaller, a lot of courses call for lab equipment and the maintaining of labs and so on. And students have higher earning potential upon graduation and should, in theory, be willing to pay more.

Many humanities courses in contrast (literature, philosophy, sociology, political science, languages) can be taught quite cheaply, with labor being the only major expense. It seems unfair that humanities degrees (which are also worth less than STEM degrees on the job market) should be anywhere near as expensive as STEM degrees.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#128
post #110

With constantly rising real estate prices, this is hardly surprising. Rent is crazy. Time to switch to free high education system.

You don't even need it to be free if you fix the loans. In my country student loans are interest free but indexed with CPI and compulsory repayments are only taken from your tax once your income is above about 42k USD. Even then, the compulsory repayment amount is based on how much you're above the threshold. No-one really even notices that they're repaying their loans.

But if they're interest free then you can't bundle them and sell them to investors (Student Loan Asset Backed Securities). The whole point of rising tuition and private student loans seems to be to transfer wealth to endowments and investors.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#129
post #112
post #108

I hate sounding both old and weird but I cannot shake the feeling that much of the claims of economic health and growth in the US is... if not fake (I’m not totally nuts) but not accurate. My most charitable interpretation if I’m right is that we’re using the wrong metrics (possibly intentionally) that give a distorted view of the economy. But I keep hearing employment is great, productivity is great, stock market is…

They should use the metric of purchasing power, not just an abstract "growth". If anything purchasing power seems to be dropping for a lot of people.

That still has a very consumerist bent to it. What about some real outcome-based measurements?

Why aren't we measuring how well the economy performs by measuring how healthy people are? Or levels of malnutrition? Or happiness? Or stress? Or education?

We should measure our economic progress by how well we're doing as people, not by how much extra shit rich people can buy.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#130
post #108

I hate sounding both old and weird but I cannot shake the feeling that much of the claims of economic health and growth in the US is... if not fake (I’m not totally nuts) but not accurate. My most charitable interpretation if I’m right is that we’re using the wrong metrics (possibly intentionally) that give a distorted view of the economy. But I keep hearing employment is great, productivity is great, stock market is…

>But I keep hearing employment is great, productivity is great, stock market is great

The question you have to ask is, who are you hearing this from? The answer is: people with a vested interest in making you believe the economy is doing great, or people fooled into believing this by those with a vested interest.

I suggest you closely examine the metrics used by those who claim the "economy is great". First these metrics are usually comparing year-over-year changes to point to "positive changes" in the economy. What they fail to announce is that the formulas they use to calculate these metrics are "adjusted" regularly to ensure that the numbers they seek are reflected. CPI is a perfect example. The FED claims that inflation has been very low, if not non-existent for years (good for workers, since their wages have fallen or remained stagnant for decades). Some have noted, however, that prices for most of the things people need to survive (food, rent, education, healthcare, insurance) continue to rise dramatically. How can this be? Well one way the FED lies with their numbers is through a mechanism called the "hedonic adjustment". If you paid $2 for a roll 60-sheet roll of toilet paper last year. This year you paid $3 for a 60-sheet roll this year, that's some serious inflation, right? Not according to the FED. The FED claims that the quality of the toilet paper is better now. Even though you are paying 50% more, the FED says the toilet paper is 50% better, so there is no inflation. How are these "hedonic adjustments" calculated? Arbitrarily by FED functionaries, in a black-box.

Rising debt, falling and stagnant wages, higher prices, consolidation of wealth - these are the real conditions we face and why our economy is lagging. Many will look at you as if you are wearing a tinfoil hat if you question the "official numbers", but even casual scrutiny of the methods and metrics used (the ones they do release) will raise substantial doubts about their worth.

Post reply on HN