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Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#121

Post by agarden »

j1f4 wrote: post #70
jdietrich wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of highly experienced jumpers are also dying, probably due to a mix of complacency, envelope-pushing and the inherent lack of margin for error in terrain flight. This point is made in the latter part of the article: > Figuring out why the best are dying confounds, saddens, and even irritates just about everyone I’ve spoken to in the wingsuit BASE world. “It’s really puzzling to me,” says Rich Webb. “I wish I kn…

This reminds me of Freeman Dyson's research on British Bombers during WWII -- the data showed experienced crews didn't fair better than novices, but they didn't figure out why till after the war. > Bomber Command told the crews that their chances of survival would increase with experience, and the crews believed it. They were told, After you have got through the first few operations, things will get better. This idea…

Fascinating.

In a comment elsewhere on this page capncrunch suggests downdrafts[1]. Seems like the kind of thing that could randomly strike novices and experts alike.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15114380

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#122

Post by base698 »

corporateslave2 wrote: post #47
base698 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a challenge mentally? Overcome fear see different places, have different experiences? I've been skydiving and base jumping longer than I've not been and it's led me to some of the most rewarding experiences of my life.

But those experiences are just self induced near death experiences. It's an illusion of meaning

Met billionaires, actors, famous people. Saw places I'd never have seen that are some of the most beautiful on Earth, and even got married at one of them.

Talking about all the things around the experience. In fact most of the reason I still continue to do it is the people.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#123

Post by nkrisc »

Reading through I surprised to learn that both novices and veterans of the sport are dying. I suppose that's just how dangerous it is.

As for myself, while I'm sure these are incredible experiences, there are other amazing things I can experience in life that aren't nearly as deadly. I'll stick with those and optimize for total volume of as incredible life experiences as is possible before I (hopefully) die of natural causes at an old age. Having a kid on the way changes my perspective as well.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#124

Post by base698 »

manarth wrote: post #101
base698 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is in the land of the free. It's generally not banned in Europe, so most BASE jumpers who are active spend at least a few weeks a year there. About 10 to 20 die world wide in about a population of 1000 or so active jumpers. It can be done relatively safely but the group isn't big enough to regulate effectively and most BASE jumpers are hostile to anyone mentioning the idea.

It is in the land of the free I'm aware that BASE jumping is banned in US National Parks (and it's been argued that this increases the risk [1]), but it doesn't seem to be banned generally in America (see Perrine Bridge, or Bridge Day, for example [2]). [1] https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/may/22/did-rules... [2] http://www.nerverush.com/base-jumping-locations-plan-jump/

Most of the safe wingsuit flights are in national parks. The Perrine is fun but it's not a 3000 ft mountain with waterfall views on the way down.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#125

Post by TheCondor »

Dwolb wrote: post #80
j1f4 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of Freeman Dyson's research on British Bombers during WWII -- the data showed experienced crews didn't fair better than novices, but they didn't figure out why till after the war. > Bomber Command told the crews that their chances of survival would increase with experience, and the crews believed it. They were told, After you have got through the first few operations, things will get better. This idea…

That's a great story. My first instinct for where to look to find things that would affect experts and beginners alike is manufacturing defects or poor suit design. I'd say also weather but that seems more likely to be highly variable and prone to skill (i.e. experts know when conditions are poor).

Does experience grow the margin of error? Do "incidents" become less fatal? Like in Russian roulette, its possible that experience doesn't improve your odds when something bad happens.

Sky diving is a little different, if a chute fails to open, your ability to remain calm and deal with it and deploy the backup makes a difference. In a lot of extreme activities I could see experience making a huge impact during incidents, flying suits might not be that forgiving.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#126

Post by loup-vaillant »

WalterBright wrote: post #55
base698 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pilot training only focuses on instruments during IFR training. Private pilot and most VFR is done without emphasis on instruments. Aerobatics rely on senses and no instruments. Source: Skydiver, BASE jumper, paraglider, aerobatic airplane pilot, private pilot land and sea.

> Aerobatics rely on senses and no instruments. But I bet you check the airspeed and altitude before doing any maneuvers that'll take you near the ground. I've seen the videos of pilots at airshows pulling out of a dive and having not quite enough altitude to do it. Also, stall recovery is well known to be something that runs counter to every natural instinct a person has.

There's a difference between using one's own senses and using one's own instincts. Stall recovery is easily done with one's own senses (sight, hearing, and proprioception), even though the correct response is counter-intuitive.

Looking at the instruments would even be a bad idea when you stall, because you'd lose time which you could use to save your life.

I even know of a sailplane instructor that turn the instruments off for the student (not for himself, though), so the student can learn to read his own sensory information correctly before relying on instruments.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#127

Post by 0xfeba »

delhanty wrote: post #69

Six hours late on this thread and I can't see anyone calling out GoPro and friends: >Five days earlier, the GoPro star Uli Emanuele, 29, died when he crashed in the Dolomites of his native country, Italy. Freedom for these people (mostly young men) to die is one thing. But part of GoPro's profits are knowingly built up by a quasi-suicide cult. That's not that different from dealing heroin.

> But part of GoPro's profits are knowingly built up by a quasi-suicide cult.

How is that?

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#128

Post by emodendroket »

> Wingsuiters are striking apple-size targets from a mile away. And they’re flying mere inches above, around, and sometimes even through terrain that’s barely wider than their own outstretched arms.

Well, seems like they've answered their own question.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#129

Post by cylinder »

cvsh wrote: post #4

Probably because it's the most dangerous thing you can do short of actually attempting suicide

How are there so many people willing to do something so insanely stupid?

I looked at the BASE fatality list. Vast majority of the names and nationalities are of European descent and/or nationality.

Are adventure sports (risk taking for thrill) a white European thing? Do you have to have a sort of arrogance and privilege to disrespect risks like this?

I personally have no desire for any of this stuff, as I'm quite aware of risk generally.

Re: Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016)

#130

Post by slazaro »

mulletbum wrote: post #108
kbart wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt VR will ever replace dangerous sports. You get adrenaline rush precisely for the fact that you realize it's dangerous with a real potential of getting killed or wounded and the fact that you get away with it. Sitting in an armchair with no such potential consequences might get you some thrills but it's nowhere close to the real adrenaline rush. I don't actively pursuit this feeling, but driving motorcycle reg…

This is why I always wish I went into game development. Maybe it can't be the same thing, but the experience can still be extraordinary. Even playing a game like Kerbal Space Program makes you feel like an astronaut. I can't imagine how good virtual reality can get.

But you get the rush from playing those games, not developing them. I mean, you do get a rush from releasing something you finished and believe in, but it's not what you're looking for, right?
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