121–130 of 186 posts
It really makes me sad to think of the amount of hours Rod has spent on this instead of writing free software for all of us to use. Node got really popular, and with that came a whole group of people who are more interested in social justice instead of actual technical work. NPM is partially to blame for employing most of the people who are pushing to remove Rod.
It was pretty hard to discern what happened. A lot of text and veiled insinuations. He is how far I got: It was this article tweeted by Rod: http://quillette.com/2017/07/18/neurodiversity-case-free-spe... Which was noticed by a member of the community: https://twitter.com/captainsafia/status/887782785221615618 Does that describe it? Maybe someone has a more clear summary One thing I noticed is that Node.js community…
I do not know that I have the answer, but I do have a guess: Node.js is the only one of those projects whose development is primarily backed by a corporation. Culturally, this sort of drama can only take place in environments where the "shut up and show me the code" hacker ethos is either missing or superceeded by other concerns. When a single company has significant control of the project, its priorities will overri…
And Joyent left the node scene almost entirely years ago, so that's not it. Now node.js is a bunch of smaller companies fighting over their piece of the pie.
The Joyent drama was also because other young companies saw potential profits if they unseated the incumbent. I suspect the best thing Joyent ever did was leave the scene -- they spent several years nursing node.js from nothing to fame, and look what they got in return: a mess and long-term negative vibes.
The drama we continually see in node.js are part SJWs, and a much-larger part behind-the-scenes competitive corporate politics.
Does anyone have a TLDR about this story? I haven't had the time to follow all the drama.
One of the things that is useful about due process is the right to confront your accusers and cross examine them under oath. Without those rights, it is difficult, if not impossible, to see justice done. Too often these important elements are missing, and Rod's statement "At no point have I been provided with an opportunity to answer to these complaints, correct the factual errors contained in them (see below), apolo…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sounds like you'd already made up your mind about Rod, and weren't keen to hear the other side. I actually only read his side, although I stopped after a couple screen fulls as I recognized from experience that what I was reading was not a productive response to the situation at hand, but a defensive one.
> I recognized from experience that what I was reading was not a productive response to the situation at hand, but a defensive one. What would a productive response be? I agree that getting unnecessarily mired in drama is counterproductive, but I don't think that these accusations could have been reasonably ignored, nor do I know what Rod could (or should) have done differently.
You need to not be accusatory, nor defensive.
This is the age old way of dealing with issues in a productive fashion. Read getting to "Getting to yes" or try getting married.
What I read in this github issue is just immature, very ineffective problem solving from I guess someone who doesn't know better.
Having reviewed the relevant tweets/GitHub issues/blog posts, I feel most of the noise is generated by people who make it their mission to find things about which to be outraged. The NodeJS brand has the momentum necessary to build great things. If they squander it by cry-wolf-forking every time there is an internal disagreement, another JS engine (e.g. Chakra) will take the helm.
> The NodeJS brand has the momentum necessary to build great things. If they squander it by cry-wolf-forking every time there is an internal disagreement, another JS engine (e.g. Chakra) will take the helm. Node.js is not an engine, Node.js uses the V8 engine (same engine that powers the Chrome browser). Technically you could use Node.js with the Chakra engine or other JavaScript engines.
The greater point I was making is that this fork seems to be a baby-and-bathwater reaction; disagreeing with one member's behavior does not make the entire community toxic.
It was pretty hard to discern what happened. A lot of text and veiled insinuations. He is how far I got: It was this article tweeted by Rod: http://quillette.com/2017/07/18/neurodiversity-case-free-spe... Which was noticed by a member of the community: https://twitter.com/captainsafia/status/887782785221615618 Does that describe it? Maybe someone has a more clear summary One thing I noticed is that Node.js community…
Several high ranking members of Node / NPM are militant queer feminists. If they smell blood in the water, they tend to pounce hard without much regard for due process. Others glom on either in agreement or to make themselves seem progressive.
One of the things that is useful about due process is the right to confront your accusers and cross examine them under oath. Without those rights, it is difficult, if not impossible, to see justice done. Too often these important elements are missing, and Rod's statement "At no point have I been provided with an opportunity to answer to these complaints, correct the factual errors contained in them (see below), apolo…
The judgment communities make is between the ill effects of an imperfect process and between the ill effects of no process at all. There is nothing wrong with a community looking at the effects of no process at all and deciding "We can do better." It is perhaps worth pointing out that no process at all has no due process either.
Whereas a process without a notion of due process, is always worse than a process with a notion of due process.
I see it as the judgement a community makes is between dealing with the conflict openly (both accuser and accused are named and aware of each other and aware of the conflict) and avoiding open conflict. And in the interest of avoiding open conflict they sacrifice fairness.
"Rod has his opinion on CoC and you have yours. Now play nice or you both go to bed early with no TV."
I believe Rod and his detractors are all earning a different sort of punishment though. Who wants to hire a bunch of drama queens like this? It's too bad salary data isn't public like tweets. It would be interesting to see exactly how much internet drama negatively impacts a person's lifetime earning potential.
They don't have the training, resources, or infrastructure to make it work.
Really, they should just be realistic, and say "we're gonna look at what people say, make a completely arbitrary decision, and stick with it".
Because that's what is really happening.