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We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

news.nationalgeographic.com

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Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#121

Post by adamsea »

nostromo95 wrote: post #63
ak217 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, here are the things to be actively controlling: don't hunch over (keep your back relatively straight), keep your arms bent at 90 degrees and swing them moderately (not too little, not too much), don't lock out knees, don't heel strike (strike with the blade or ball of your foot, whichever you prefer). If you're swaying side to side, you may need to place your feet closer to the centerline of your bo…

>swing them moderately (not too little, not too much) Just had to point out this delicious tautology. Anyway, I don't think you can sum up correct running form in words, or if you can then it's not useful. My advice would be: keep your tempo (steps/minute) around 170-180, do ankle mobility work and hip/glute strengthening. A high tempo lessens time in air each stride and thus velocity when hitting the ground, lowerin…

>Just had to point out this delicious tautology. Anyway, I don't think you can sum up correct running form in words, or if you can then it's not useful. My advice would be: ....

Just had to point out this tasty contradiction. ;)

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#122

Post by adamsea »

nostromo95 wrote: post #63
ak217 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, here are the things to be actively controlling: don't hunch over (keep your back relatively straight), keep your arms bent at 90 degrees and swing them moderately (not too little, not too much), don't lock out knees, don't heel strike (strike with the blade or ball of your foot, whichever you prefer). If you're swaying side to side, you may need to place your feet closer to the centerline of your bo…

>swing them moderately (not too little, not too much) Just had to point out this delicious tautology. Anyway, I don't think you can sum up correct running form in words, or if you can then it's not useful. My advice would be: keep your tempo (steps/minute) around 170-180, do ankle mobility work and hip/glute strengthening. A high tempo lessens time in air each stride and thus velocity when hitting the ground, lowerin…

>Just had to point out this delicious tautology. Anyway, I don't think you can sum up correct running form in words, or if you can then it's not useful. My advice would be: ....

Just had to point out this tasty contradiction. ;)

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#123

Post by linkregister »

zzalpha wrote: post #112
freehunter wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone says "I'm paying for X behavior from my 20s" when they reach middle age. In reality, it's just that's when the body begins to wear down and people naturally want to blame it on something so we invented a euphemism for it. It's not science, there's no evidence. People in their 50s start to hurt more, and injuries that never healed right can be ignored when you're young, but start to hurt again later on. It's…

Is this meant to agree with my point or rebut it? This all started when sndean wrote the following: Eventually you stop listening to everyone, even your coach. Running (and most sports) would do well to follow science and have a cited source following every statement. It's a little absurd when someone tells me I'm going to get injured if I don't do more barefoot running. I've been wearing this same model of Brooks sh…

I agree. You'll probably not get the satisfaction you're looking here on HN, just more anecdotes.

I recommend a forum for kinesiologists, physical therapists, podiatrists, or orthopedic specialists. HN is great for software and software entrepreneurs; not much else.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#124

Post by JauntyHatAngle »

ak217 wrote: post #45
WalterSear wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When you run barefoot, or in a pair of ultra-light "shoes" like Vibrams, you learn very quickly not to do that, or you stop running. The "right" way is to land on the ball of the foot, with the knee slightly bent. The knee bends further to dissipate the force of the landing. This is how evolution "meant" for us to do it. There's more to it than that. Please make sure that you are pushing off with your heel. Many peo…

I've been running recreationally since high school, I average about 20 miles/week, an even mix of road/trail. I'm also a bit heavier than a typical avid recreational runner, putting more stress on my legs and feet. Having gone through a variety of shoes, I'd like to caution people about the minimalistic shoe trend, especially if you run mostly on pavement. It's true that overly cushioned shoes can cause heel strike a…

I second this.

I've always wore "normal" joggers, been running, playing sport etc without a problem for decades.

Swapped to minimalist shoes, and bam, had shin splints for months, I assumed it was the amount I was running for a while before I realised it was just the shoes and their lack of support.

Went back to my normal shoes and got insole supports for my new shoes, the shin splints went away very quickly.

Turns out a lot of what works for you differs based on your foot shape. I happened to have a very high arch, and my foot couldn't handle the shoes with a low platform because it caused me to pronate. So either I go barefoot or I go decent support.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#125

Post by nextos »

nostromo95 wrote: post #82
freshhawk wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the barefoot/minimal part was not the focus of what we are doing wrong (I only run in Vibrams, it's plainly much better but you have to start incredibly slow and work up to it). His point about what we're doing wrong was treating it as a speed based sport or a chore to do to be healthy, with a bunch of gadgets to mediate the experience, when it should be a relaxing, fun meditative practice where you disconn…

>I only run in Vibrams, it's plainly much better Let me know the next time you see Asbel Kiprop, Eliud Kipchoge or Evan Jager wearing a pair of those.

Marathon shoes are much closer to Vibrams than to regular running shoes. They just have a bit of extra cushion to make a long asphalt running session manageable.

In fact, running on Vibrams on sand or grass is very similar to using cleats on the track. I say this as a ex-competitive runner.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#127

Post by nextos »

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

Aside from the form, I also wonder about the distance. Is it healthy to run long distances at a constant heartrate vs interval training?

As described in an article linked in the one posted, humans seem to have evolved to run long distances [1]. I wonder how we could reconcile that with the fact that long distance running at constant pace seems to be bad for our hearts [2].

[1] http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1117_041117_...

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3538475/

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#128

Post by peterwwillis »

agumonkey wrote: post #80
peterwwillis wrote: post #34

How to do running right: 1. Walk. 2. Increase pace until uncomfortable. 3. Back off pace until comfortable. Everything else is yak shaving.

What barefoot forces you is to restart that process at very basic level. Your feet are sensitive, if you stomp on the ground as you do with shoes (especially amortizing running shoes) you'll quickly see the problem. It makes your movement way more subtle, soft, supple and also redistributes effort on the whole limb chain.

Barefoot running is a lame fad for people who think there's secret value in the obscurity of old things. Modern societies have been running with various foot coverings (usually sandals) for thousands of years. So there's nothing wrong with running with shoes.

If barefoot running is all about moving differently, you don't need to be barefoot to do that.

Do Thai boxing conditioning for a few months. Learn to jump in all directions for two minutes with 60lbs on your back, and jump rope for 10 minutes straight, and crawl on all fours in various directions and positions. You will definitely be able to move differently, more efficiently, without injury.

Does this have anything to do with running? No! Running is running. Moving differently is moving differently. If barefoot running pretends that the latter is what the former is all about, it's wrong.

If you want to run, and you can run, and you do run, just keep doing what you're doing. Anything more and it turns from exercise (or a way to get somewhere) into a hobby.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#129

Post by Swizec »

nextos wrote: post #127
rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

Aside from the form, I also wonder about the distance. Is it healthy to run long distances at a constant heartrate vs interval training? As described in an article linked in the one posted, humans seem to have evolved to run long distances [1]. I wonder how we could reconcile that with the fact that long distance running at constant pace seems to be bad for our hearts [2]. [1] http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/…

> Is it healthy to run long distances at a constant heartrate vs interval training?

It depends what you consider long distance. Marathons definitely are not healthy. 10ks probably are.

Intervals are great for actually increasing your VO2max without blowing out your cardiovascular system.

Funnily, when you run a raceday marathon, your heartrate (or at least mine) spends most of its time in the 160+ bmp cardio/anaerobic range. You won't be able to do that if your training doesn't involve at limit intervals that increase your cardio capacity.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#130

Post by erikpukinskis »

freehunter wrote: post #109
zzalpha wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's your evidence? I assume you have a multi-decade longitudinal study to back up your claim?

Everyone says "I'm paying for X behavior from my 20s" when they reach middle age. In reality, it's just that's when the body begins to wear down and people naturally want to blame it on something so we invented a euphemism for it. It's not science, there's no evidence. People in their 50s start to hurt more, and injuries that never healed right can be ignored when you're young, but start to hurt again later on. It's…

> In reality, it's just that's when the body begins to wear down and people naturally want to blame it on something so we invented a euphemism for it.

The body "wearing down" is not a thing. You're talking about repetitive stress injuries. The body is built to work as long as you need it to, and replenish itself daily.

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