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Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

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Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#121

Post by baby »

hudon wrote: post #108
subway wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enterprise Ethereum has almost nothing to do with Ethereum the public blockchain, or crypto-currency. Ethereum based blockchains (that is based on Ethereum the software, not the canonical global instance of that software) provide an ability to create an auditable log of events. Those events might be "who accessed my credit card account and when" or "who requested access to my health records and when". These chains ca…

> Ethereum based blockchains provide an ability to create an auditable log of events If all they want is a log of events, why not use a tried and true database whose performance is more well understood? MySQL, Cassandra, whatever. You can add the ability to audit the tables by signing data updates with public key crypto.

If I understand correctly, this is basically a database but in a merkle tree form + crypto. There is also no proof of work as it is not needed.

Maybe the client has key pinning baked in it, where each bank owns a key?

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#122

Post by hudon »

baby wrote: post #121
hudon wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ethereum based blockchains provide an ability to create an auditable log of events If all they want is a log of events, why not use a tried and true database whose performance is more well understood? MySQL, Cassandra, whatever. You can add the ability to audit the tables by signing data updates with public key crypto.

If I understand correctly, this is basically a database but in a merkle tree form + crypto. There is also no proof of work as it is not needed. Maybe the client has key pinning baked in it, where each bank owns a key?

If you take Ethereum and you remove ETH/gas, you remove proof of work, you remove decentralized computation because that's just really inefficient and you want high throughput... can you really call what you have left Ethereum?

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#123

Post by omarchowdhury »

bduerst wrote: post #120
zeroxfe wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federated blockchains allow multiple parties in an industry (for example) to maintain a shared trusted database, with no single owner, or single point of failure. (Also, changing immutable data or posting fraudulent transactions requires collusion between multiple parties.) This is why many large industries like healthcare and finance are actively exploring this space.

Distributed databases can be configured to work that way as well. Why do you need a proof-of-work blockchain? With such a small number of participants doesn't that weaken it's integrity to attacks, especially without capital incentives?

Please someone answer this.

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#124

Post by subway »

bduerst wrote: post #120
zeroxfe wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federated blockchains allow multiple parties in an industry (for example) to maintain a shared trusted database, with no single owner, or single point of failure. (Also, changing immutable data or posting fraudulent transactions requires collusion between multiple parties.) This is why many large industries like healthcare and finance are actively exploring this space.

Distributed databases can be configured to work that way as well. Why do you need a proof-of-work blockchain? With such a small number of participants doesn't that weaken it's integrity to attacks, especially without capital incentives?

There's nothing that ties a blockchain to proof of work. Proof of work just just one consensus protocol. For instance, JP Morgan's Quorum is working on Raft based consensus. https://github.com/jpmorganchase/quorum/blob/master/raft/doc...

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#125

Post by hudon »

subway wrote: post #124
bduerst wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distributed databases can be configured to work that way as well. Why do you need a proof-of-work blockchain? With such a small number of participants doesn't that weaken it's integrity to attacks, especially without capital incentives?

There's nothing that ties a blockchain to proof of work. Proof of work just just one consensus protocol. For instance, JP Morgan's Quorum is working on Raft based consensus. https://github.com/jpmorganchase/quorum/blob/master/raft/doc...

The nodes are federated and you're still calling this a blockchain? What definition of the word "blockchain" are you using? Is this not more commonly called a "distributed database"?

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#126

Post by redy »

joosters wrote: post #119
kristofferR wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum is planning a switch away from proof of work.

It's unclear whether or not the alternative 'proof of stake' technique will be more efficient than proof of work. It is susceptible to abuse, and is likely to require an arms race of CPU power to prevent attackers from abusing it.

So much fear, uncertainty, doubt. This thread of full of people who clearly know little boldly asserting that it's impossible.

It's unclear? You realize proof-of-stake coins like Nxt [1] have been in production since 2013?

I won't say much else. People who are interested or curious enough will seek out the truth and move beyond this execrable thread.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nxt

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#127

Post by subway »

subway wrote: post #124
bduerst wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distributed databases can be configured to work that way as well. Why do you need a proof-of-work blockchain? With such a small number of participants doesn't that weaken it's integrity to attacks, especially without capital incentives?

There's nothing that ties a blockchain to proof of work. Proof of work just just one consensus protocol. For instance, JP Morgan's Quorum is working on Raft based consensus. https://github.com/jpmorganchase/quorum/blob/master/raft/doc...

Replying to myself since we hit max comment depth (probably an indicator it's time to move away from this thread anyway). but to address the sibling reply by hudon, yes, a blockchain is a form of a distributed database (maybe highly replicated data base is a better term since every node has the full working data set).

The key trait of a blockchain is that each new entry cryptographically verifies all previous entries. At the end of the day, yes, a blockchain is a distributed db. It's a distributed db that never forgets.

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#128

Post by writtles »

cc438 wrote: post #85
CuriousCosmic wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

however that swiss corporation is Ethereum Switzerland GmbH which kinda exists for the sole purpose of making Ethereum

It exists for the sole purpose of benefiting its investors and whoever may be behind any investment fronts used to push that currency. I wonder who they might be?

The Ethereum crowd sale participants?

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#129

Post by cbr »

hudon wrote: post #125
subway wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing that ties a blockchain to proof of work. Proof of work just just one consensus protocol. For instance, JP Morgan's Quorum is working on Raft based consensus. https://github.com/jpmorganchase/quorum/blob/master/raft/doc...

The nodes are federated and you're still calling this a blockchain? What definition of the word "blockchain" are you using? Is this not more commonly called a "distributed database"?

To me, "blockchain" implies the individual nodes don't trust each other, while "distributed database" does.

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#130

Post by hudon »

subway wrote: post #127
subway wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing that ties a blockchain to proof of work. Proof of work just just one consensus protocol. For instance, JP Morgan's Quorum is working on Raft based consensus. https://github.com/jpmorganchase/quorum/blob/master/raft/doc...

Replying to myself since we hit max comment depth (probably an indicator it's time to move away from this thread anyway). but to address the sibling reply by hudon, yes, a blockchain is a form of a distributed database (maybe highly replicated data base is a better term since every node has the full working data set). The key trait of a blockchain is that each new entry cryptographically verifies all previous entries…

> The key trait of a blockchain is that each new entry cryptographically verifies all previous entries

I see what you're saying. Basically: distributed database + signatures + merkle tree = blockchain.

I usually use this definition: decentralized and sybil-resistant database + signatures + merkle tree = blockchain.

So I think the key trait that turns a distributed database into a blockchain is not the merkle tree, but is its decentralized nature. Anyone can be a transaction validator and no one can prevent transaction validation.

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