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European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

europa.eu

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Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#121

Post by vegancap »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #102
vegancap wrote: post #36

The EU are verging on gangsterism, extorting businesses for increasingly specious violations and terms. Of course Google favour their affiliates on THEIR web services, their property.

I have absolutely no framework for understanding this attitude. I've got to assume you're aware of things like unfair competition, antitrust laws, market distortions and so on. The idea is that a disproportionately influential market participant can cause the market to become less free by virtue of inhibiting competition – competition being a vital part of a free market. Rules against abusing a dominant market positi…

I get that competition is vital for a free-market to function, unless Google gained power in this scenario through external influences such as government, then surely it has gained its position through market competition?

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#122

Post by s_kilk »

vegancap wrote: post #113
s_kilk wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the manic defense of corporate interests over the interests of the public more sickening.

I just don't understand how surfacing affiliated ads over others on Google own sites is a big deal? They're a revenue generating service, of course they're going to favour ad networks and channels which benefit them the most financially. To fine a private business €2.4bn for conducting pretty standard business practices.

Because the user has an expectation that they'll be shown the best results, not the most self-shilled results.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#123

Post by kbart »

patrickaljord wrote: post #103

I wonder if that's payback for the US gov fining VW so hard: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/04/21/volkswa... It's almost the same amount, US$2.8B. It's like the EU telling the US "F with our corporations and we'll F with yours".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Google antitrust investigation had started earlier than VW scandal, so maybe that's vice versa.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#124

Post by [deleted] »

calcifer wrote: post #114
Pyxl101 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're acting like the outcome of this decision was in any way predictable based on the "rules of the EU". If I owned a website that had a search engine and comparison shopping and email, I would not expect that it's somehow wrong if my search engine shows results from my service's comparison shopping and email. I would not expect that it's somehow my obligation to seek out comparison shopping services operated by my…

> You're acting like the outcome of this decision was in any way predictable based on the "rules of the EU" Yes it was [0]. > If I owned a website that had a search engine and comparison shopping and email, I would not expect that it's somehow wrong if my search engine shows results from my service's comparison shopping and email If your search engine had a dominant position in the EU market and if you used that domi…

[deleted]

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#126

Post by Aaargh20318 »

devoply wrote: post #110
tokenizerrr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do a lot of profiling. Like if you're logged into a google account at the time, and other session checks. Perhaps your browsers had different cookies/localStorage, which could explain it.

Say that this is true. Google can only use its own data from its own browser to improve the web and penalizes everyone who is not using their browser. The result is the same. Google has a monopoly on your experience of the web... because it is optimized for users of its browser.

> Say that this is true. Google can only use its own data from its own browser to improve the web and penalizes everyone who is not using their browser.

No, it also works on other browsers. I know because I exclusively use Safari and I encounter this one-click-captcha thing regularly.

The thing is it only works on browsers you use regularly. It looks like they are analysing/tracking the behaviour of your browser (using google ads and other assets embedded in web pages) and determine if your browsing behaviour matches that of a human.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#127

Post by pulse7 »

mythz wrote: post #100

This is a ridiculous figure, how can they come up with a figure more than 2x times the amount of the previous record (for Intel's egregious behavior) for deciding what content goes on their own platform, which wasn't previously known to be illegal? What do they want to force Google to do now, prohibit being able to advertise on their own platform? give their competitors priority placement for free? How many rival com…

..."for deciding what content goes on their own platform" - but is used inside EU market under EU laws...

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#128

Post by pjc50 »

forthefuture wrote: post #8

Capitalism is like a competition that when you win you don't ever get to play again.

No, it's a game that when you "win" everyone else is forced to drop out, so they have to kick over the board and start again.

This is literally what the board game "Monopoly" is about. Like that, only you can't quit the game and are dependent on it for survival.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#129

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

jlebrech wrote: post #58
Inconel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering how big the EU market is I'm sure the profit Google derives from it is many times this judgement.

so EU can keep knocking on their door because google has no choice but to pay up?

Yeah, surprising, isn't it? If you keep breaking the law, law enforcement will keep knocking on your door, who would have thought?

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#130

Post by IanCal »

mythz wrote: post #100

This is a ridiculous figure, how can they come up with a figure more than 2x times the amount of the previous record (for Intel's egregious behavior) for deciding what content goes on their own platform, which wasn't previously known to be illegal? What do they want to force Google to do now, prohibit being able to advertise on their own platform? give their competitors priority placement for free? How many rival com…

> This is a ridiculous figure, how can they come up with a figure more than 2x times the amount of the previous record (for Intel's egregious behavior) for deciding what content goes on their own platform, which wasn't previously known to be illegal

By following the rules & regulations set out, which Google will have been fully aware of. This is explained in the link and should not have required calling it "ridiculous". I also disagree it wasn't previously known to be illegal unless you can show something has been applied retroactively (so a law created in 2008 or later).

> The Commission's fine of €2 424 495 000 takes account of the duration and gravity of the infringement. In accordance with the Commission's 2006 Guidelines on fines (see press release and MEMO), the fine has been calculated on the basis of the value of Google's revenue from its comparison shopping service in the 13 EEA countries concerned.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-06-857_en.htm?locale...

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-06-256_en.htm?loca...

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/antitrust/legislation/fines....

> What do they want to force Google to do now

> The Commission Decision requires Google to stop its illegal conduct within 90 days of the Decision and refrain from any measure that has the same or an equivalent object or effect. In particular, the Decision orders Google to comply with the simple principle of giving equal treatment to rival comparison shopping services and its own service:

> Google has to apply the same processes and methods to position and display rival comparison shopping services in Google's search results pages as it gives to its own comparison shopping service.

Doesn't mean they have to show terrible shopping pages, they just have to compete with them on an even footing rather than pushing every other comparison site back to almost nowhere in the results.

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