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A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

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Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#121
post #118
post #91

Extreme left is probably not quite right, "totalitarian left" would probably be closer to the mark. A left that considers all its views and actions beyond question and wields social justice ideas as weapons against dissent. For example, remember how every criticism of Hillary Clinton the neoliberal warmonger was and still is blamed on misogyny? How Sanders and his supporters were smeared as sexists and racists and al…

The thing you're talking about is not Leftism, it's Identitarianism. Remember, the left-right dichotomy is about how the means of production should be owned and controlled. While the Left does also stand for such progressive causes such as anti-racism and anti-sexism, the contemporary Liberal/Clintonite strain of Identitarianism doesn't have much overlap with actual Leftism.

Not quite.

Back in the day the left-right thing happened over who backed the king of France or not, by where they physically stood in the room.

And it was very much a social rather than economical thing back then.

Keep in mind that right-wing has often been used synonymously with conservative. As in preserving the social status quo of classes and whatsnot.

Later on, with socialism/communism coming into play, workers parties and traditional leftist parties found much common ground.

In Norway we have this "hilarious" situation where we have two parties names Venstre (Left) and Høyre (Right), whole both are to the right politically speaking of Arbeiderpartiet (Workers Party).

BTW Venstre is a bit player in Norwegian politics these days, while the biggest parties are Arbeiderpartiet and Høyre (the two taking turns leading the government in cooperation with various smaller parties).

During the last 4 years Venstre has even acted as a underwriter of the Høyre lead government, even though they keep voicing disproval of their actual policies.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#122
I live in the EU, and what I see is that the two sides ( progressives / modern conservatives ) almost say the same things with very subtle differences, and the real difference is the way they talk.

I saw a comment here that stated that a neoliberal won against a progressive which is right. But every poll shows that Bernie would have won against Trump. This basically means that the right wingers actually agree with the progressive talking points: global warming, health care, and a little bit of anti globalism. This also means that Hillary didn't represent these.

I've also seen here that there is there is no left wing push. Some talking points of Hillary are the best example of that, for ex. "vote for me because I'm a woman". Many people who think that there are no major differences between a man and a woman will think that this statement is sexist. There is a push to be kind with everyone and it is forced on people very hard ( NASA guy with the shirt ).

This is very real as you can see in many comments. This like racism against black people in the U.S: if you ask black people many will say that they never experienced it, same like conservatives, but this doesn't necessary mean that it doesn't exists.

My main point that the progressive movement has two sides: one with important issues which are physically influences our lives, and one which wants social change. IMHO the social changes they want aren't that great, and the means they try to achieve that are very very bad. The mainstream part of democrats turned to the social part, and that caused this change.

My question for liberals here, who just don't understand why 4chan changed: Do you think what I've stated here is true? Why not? If yes then why the connection between the alt-right and leftist push is wrong?

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's not so much the day to day interactions, which are largely apolitical[1], but the culture we consume. For example the latest E3 showcases had quite an emphasis on "diversity". On most days there will be some story about wage gap, harassment or other sexual missteps on the HN front page and various online newspapers. Now that's the daily surface stuff. This is not bad in itself most of the time. I do not d…

did we watch the same E3? When did an emphasis on diversity become an "extreme left" viewpoint? Why are you feeling threatened by efforts to undo some of the marginalization of URM in popular media? I don't understand why video game enthusiasts like yourself feel like they're being threatened by more women and minorities in your games - there's still plenty of white male characters and it's not a attack on your ident…

+1 to this and not sure why parent is being down voted. It's mindboggling to me that diversity of fictional characters in made up works of art is politicized. It's not affirmative action or discrimination or anything – it's literally just people choosing to create characters that are not white men. And for some reason that's controversial.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#124
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's crazy is that in the Bush/early Obama years 4chan was fairly liberal in terms of politics.

I think one important question to ask here is: what caused the huge shift? Because it's something I noticed as well. Something happened that has pushed much of the general internet and large swathes of the "geekier" parts of the net to the right, and it doesn't seem to be letting up. The media ran with the "Russian shills" thing for a while, but it seems to be running out of steam and people I've known for years who…

It's pretty simple, we moved left too fast for even many on the American left, and there was a backlash. Most people want to do the right thing, and the left's brand is "nice for people" but past a certain point people need to have some social, political and economic stability and the changes just came too fast and hard for that.

I was a straight-up supporter of Occupy Wall Street. I know a lot of people who were. We all changed.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#125
I did a fair bit of browsing on 4chan's /pol as well as the less chaotic 8ch dot net /pol.

I don't have strong evidence but I got the sense that there was more than just trolls trolling trolls. It felt like psychological operations. It felt like a community with calibrated narrative control and engineered content by motivated parties.

A lot of memes designed to target sexual insecurity. At the top of the messaging, a mutation of the "Pick up artist" school of evolutionary psychology designed to create a racist world view.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was talking about the left-wing PC culture that is throughout society for the last few years. First, I want to note that this has been a conservative talking point for a long time. It's flared up again since 2014 or so, but "PC culture" has been the go-to jab against coastal intellectualism since the early 1990s. That isn't to say that valid criticisms of (coastal, collegiate) intellectualism can't be made, just…

>this has been a conservative talking point for a long time. It was addressing the exact ideology and behavior that is coming into fruition now, and we should have listened. In the early 90s people watched as the fringe slowly leaked out into the mainstream, and now it's fully into the mainstream. Example: the only acceptable feminist in public discourse is now the radfem (google the term if you think I'm using an ep…

> I don't see how you can even say this stuff.

I can say it because it's my lived experience. I think you should read my comment again - I have seen hate on my campus, and it is not a hoax. Richard Collin's death is a testament to that.

> And so Youtube is filled with insane campus protests, assaults, bizarre seminars and speeches, and yet people deny they exist or have any power.

In other words, we have the most potent tool for confirmation bias and alienation ever conceived by man. Lenses only capture moments, not sympathetic humans.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's not so much the day to day interactions, which are largely apolitical[1], but the culture we consume. For example the latest E3 showcases had quite an emphasis on "diversity". On most days there will be some story about wage gap, harassment or other sexual missteps on the HN front page and various online newspapers. Now that's the daily surface stuff. This is not bad in itself most of the time. I do not d…

did we watch the same E3? When did an emphasis on diversity become an "extreme left" viewpoint? Why are you feeling threatened by efforts to undo some of the marginalization of URM in popular media? I don't understand why video game enthusiasts like yourself feel like they're being threatened by more women and minorities in your games - there's still plenty of white male characters and it's not a attack on your ident…

> it's not just nerdy white males who play video games nowadays

Not to defend them or anything but the irony is that your indignant reaction illustrates precisely why your viewpoint is so unwelcome to gamers.

Having observed the games industry over many years, the gaming public really does want their comic book-like power fantasies and unrealistic heroes and heroines. The rather unsubtle ways that developers tend to shoehorn diversity into games or self-censor in the name of diversity[0], often at the behest of people like you, damages their immersion in the game regardless of whether they are morally right to feel that way or not. And then people come along and lambaste them for feeling that way, as above. That's not going to win any friends.

One cannot cram broccoli into a filet mignon and persuade people that it's just as good nor can one attempt to dictate what people should think by slipping a message into their entertainment, from their viewpoint, and not expect ferocious backlash.

[0] To avoid being pilloried, I will say this very explicitly: the point is not that diversity is bad. (Perish the thought.) The point is that its representation in media is often done very badly.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much exposure to "extreme leftism" would you say you get on a day to day basis at your job, in your informal social interactions, etc.?

For me it's not so much the day to day interactions, which are largely apolitical[1], but the culture we consume. For example the latest E3 showcases had quite an emphasis on "diversity". On most days there will be some story about wage gap, harassment or other sexual missteps on the HN front page and various online newspapers. Now that's the daily surface stuff. This is not bad in itself most of the time. I do not d…

> I have also seen github projects that I use suffer just because someone didn't like some language.

Like a shit storm being kicked up over the use of master-slave terminology in code or hardware.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#129
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. There is no clear evidence that illegal immigration has a meaningful influence on wages. Undocumented people mostly do jobs Americans refuse to do. For the past 30 years wages haven't kept up with productivity growth, I'm sure you've seen the charts. Meanwhile expenses for housing, education and healthcare have exploded. Framing immigration as the primary cause of economic stagnation is wrong, because it is a mino…

1. I didn't say illegal immigration was a major cause of low wages, but it definitely does have an effect, especially among lower class workers. You say "Undocumented people mostly do jobs Americans refuse to do," but the issue is that Americans refuse to do it for minimum wage. Why would someone do backbreaking labor for near minimum wage and no benefits when they can work at a gas station making more? For Americans…

At the core of your argument is this premise:

> Corporations would be forced to do so if illegal immigration didn't keep wages down.

But no one is forcing corporations to hire undocumented immigrants over people authorized to work here; in fact, they're pressured not to. It's illegal!

That's why "illegal immigration" is cast as a racist issue: it's often a hand-wavey dog whistle blaming people of color for economic issues while absolving (generally white-owned) businesses of any responsibility.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>this has been a conservative talking point for a long time. It was addressing the exact ideology and behavior that is coming into fruition now, and we should have listened. In the early 90s people watched as the fringe slowly leaked out into the mainstream, and now it's fully into the mainstream. Example: the only acceptable feminist in public discourse is now the radfem (google the term if you think I'm using an ep…

> I don't see how you can even say this stuff. I can say it because it's my lived experience. I think you should read my comment again - I have seen hate on my campus, and it is not a hoax. Richard Collin's death is a testament to that. > And so Youtube is filled with insane campus protests, assaults, bizarre seminars and speeches, and yet people deny they exist or have any power. In other words, we have the most pot…

Periscope is pretty awesome, I watch livestreams of protests, get realtime info on events. What's funny is how often you see something as it's happening, then later when "witnesses" are interviewed about it, how often they straight up lie. I'll take the video.
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