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Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

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Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#121
post #76
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the version that will ship in iOS 11 / High Sierra. Not yet determined for future versions.

Is that a political or technical decision?

Apple avoid supporting free codecs, because they are part of closed codecs cartel. So they do all they can to delay adoption of free codecs. Note, that they didn't join Alliance for Open Media, while even Microsoft did: http://aomedia.org

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because ordinary users never, ever opt in to things they shouldn't. And because of that one opt-in mistake suddenly they have invisible service workers mining Bitcoins which they could never learn about since the discovery mechanism for service workers is currently non-existent. Again, the concept of background tasks isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it needs to be locked down to specific use cases not a free fo…

So limit the amount of CPU/bw/etc. they can use, just like mobile platforms do for background apps?

Oh good. It can only burn 10% of my battery and bandwidth to make someone else rich. That's fair.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#123
post #87

ive dreamt of this for years!!! so excited. quick question: i noticed that the camera isnt available on iOS 11 if you put a web-app capable page on to your homescreen. when you open the page in full screen, mediaDevices is undefined. is that just an iOS beta bug?

It’s not a bug. Spoke to an Apple engineer about this today at WWDC. There’s security concerns enabling media devices for webviews outside safari, but it should be coming ‘soon’.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#124
Anyone else feel like Apple is the new Microsoft and they hold the world hostage by only updating their products every couple years with features we actually want? It seems like just as the unrest is about to hit critical mass they spring into action and implement just enough to placate everyone for another couple years.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would likely argue that HEVC and H.264 are hardware accelerated on nearly all of their devices whereas VP8 likely isn’t. This would mean compromising on battery life as they’d have to provide a software fallback where needed. I don’t see Apple being very willing to provide a bad user experience and given how hard they were pushing HEVC during their 2017 WWDC keynote the best bet is that they think that’s the bet…

WebRTC has codec negotiation, which means you can give preference to a particular codec while still supporting both.

Except that open source and free software can't (legally) do that.

Both HEVC and H.264 require the patent holders to be paid in order to be allowed on either a device or content.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#126
post #87

ive dreamt of this for years!!! so excited. quick question: i noticed that the camera isnt available on iOS 11 if you put a web-app capable page on to your homescreen. when you open the page in full screen, mediaDevices is undefined. is that just an iOS beta bug?

It’s not a bug. Spoke to an Apple engineer about this today at WWDC. There’s security concerns enabling media devices for webviews outside safari, but it should be coming ‘soon’.

Noooooooo

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#127
post #87

ive dreamt of this for years!!! so excited. quick question: i noticed that the camera isnt available on iOS 11 if you put a web-app capable page on to your homescreen. when you open the page in full screen, mediaDevices is undefined. is that just an iOS beta bug?

It’s not a bug. Spoke to an Apple engineer about this today at WWDC. There’s security concerns enabling media devices for webviews outside safari, but it should be coming ‘soon’.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt you'll see gaming pick up WebRTC for many of the reasons that Glenn build netcode.io[1]. It's overly complex and doesn't guarantee UDP which is a non-starter for most games. [1] http://new.gafferongames.com/post/why_cant_i_send_udp_packet... / https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode.io

It guarantees UDP for all of the cases when UDP would work. You can choose to not use TCP if you like, though I think most games would actually desire a TCP fallback.

WebRTC Data Channels don't actually let browsers send arbitrary UDP packets over the wire; rather, they only let you send SCTP packets tunneled over UDP. This distinction sounds pedantic because you can configure SCTP to deliver unreliable and unordered messages just like UDP, but there are some important caveats. For example, one of the benefits of UDP in real-time gaming is that packets can be dropped with minimal impact because it doesn't have head of line blocking. However, SCTP mandates congestion control which will start buffering your outgoing packets if it detects a minute or so of sustained packet loss (at least in libwebrtc). While congestion control is generally a good thing, in this case, it causes the game to grind to a halt. In addition, there is some overhead to sending the SCTP metadata which is suboptimal in bandwidth-heavy use cases like synchronizing a large physics simulation or supporting slower connections.

That being said, I'm very excited about WebRTC and its inclusion in Safari. It's not a silver bullet that exposes a simple UDP interface, but it's a welcome alternative to WebSockets for use in real-time games.

Re: Apple Announces Full WebRTC Support in Safari 11

#130
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a bug. Spoke to an Apple engineer about this today at WWDC. There’s security concerns enabling media devices for webviews outside safari, but it should be coming ‘soon’.

Noooooooo

Yeah... I’d file a bug anyway though, might help them prioritise it.
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