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Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

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Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#121

Post by devnonymous »

eklavya wrote: post #114
devnonymous wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am also in the "make it compulsory for income tax" group. I don't get this ! What exactly is this linkage solving ? Additionally everyone who advocates this disregards the fact that there are Non-resident Indians who are required to pay taxes but they are not entitled to an Aadhaar card and resident non-Indians who also need to pay taxes who are not required to get an Aadhaar card. Additionally, how exactly is th…

I think the Income Tax department can do the dedup themselves right? Seems easy, no different pan cards can have the same aadhar number? Income tax records are protected by very strict laws already.

...they could but are they doing it ? Do you know whom to ask ? Do you know whether you even have the right to ask these questions and get an answer ? ...and if you get the answer that they are not doing it and instead a private entity will handle it, will you have a choice to not link your PAN card to Aadhaar ?

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#122

Post by abhishivsaxena »

ganduG wrote: post #89
abhishivsaxena wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aadhaar has the same data that your US birth certificate has. Name/DOB/gender/Address-if-available. Unless I'm mistaken everyone in US has a Birth Certificate. EDIT IN RESPONSE TO YOUR EDIT An birth certificate is also an ID. There's no rational reason of being proud of not having a national ID, when you have mandatory birth registrations and birth certificates. If anything Aadhaar store less information than your BC…

A birth certificate isn't required in the US for every single transaction you make.

SSN/TIN is required to open a bank account. Like it's in every other country. Or to get welfare payments.

It's kind of common-sense. To give welfare to someone, you first need to identify them.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#123

Post by JumpCrisscross »

derefr wrote: post #103
petertodd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propaganda? Your 30 minute old account sounds like propaganda too. We all know we could reduce crime by putting cameras in people's homes. But we don't do that, because there are risks to those kinds of invasive measures. Aadhar is infrastructure that allows for centralized control of the population. Sometimes that control will be used for good things, like stamping out bribery. But that control can just as easily be…

Police forces can be deadly, too; and the alternative to them usually isn't (it's mostly "just" fraud, armed robbery, rape and slave trafficking.) But we prefer to risk authorizing some people to carry deadly weapons around—even knowing it can and does turn out badly sometimes—in order to reduce the prevalence of the things we get from lawlessness. Aadhar isn't risk-free, but if the majority of the country want it (i…

> Aadhar isn't risk-free, but if the majority of the country want it

Thank you for soberly defending the program. I disagree with one of your precedents (specifically, that Indians are informed about the risks they're taking) but agree with your logic.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#124

Post by devnonymous »

One thing I find frustrating in these arguments about Aadhaar is that the people defending it seem to align themselves by political affiliation.

People have to remember that even if the present government has good intentions and the PM is doodh ka dhulla (translation: incorruptible), Governments do not last but these programs will and if there is a way to exploit something at this scale, you better bet it some government (if not today's) will.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#125

Post by captn3m0 »

mundanevoice wrote: post #48
adityab wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have been fine with Aadhar if - They didn't rely on fingerprints, as they are easy to fake, without a high degree of technical sophistication - There would not be an API for commercial services I just want the government to be able to provide its services smoothly. I don't want random startups leaking or selling everyone's data.

You do understand that it doesn't only rely on fingerprints, right? There is retinal verification in addition to phone OTP. I had another phone number when I got Aadhar, I changed the city, lost my phone number and now there is no way, I can without physically getting somewhere and submitting the application to update my phone number. API for commercial services isn't a bad thing per se. A lot of time, it would save…

Just from last week: CCC managed to break IRIS recognition system by holding a printout of a HD photo in front of a camera.

[0]: https://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2017/iriden

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#126

Post by realonedev »

abhishivsaxena wrote: post #83
shiven wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you getting the 99% number? Any proof of that?

93% in 2015 according to UIDAI - http://www.firstpost.com/india/about-93-percent-of-adults-in... 99% in 2017 according to the the minister - http://www.thehindu.com/business/Aadhaar-covers-99-of-adults... 1.11+ B people All this is easily googleable. I fail to understand why you and the OP wouldn't just check it before fear mongering.

It's not 2015 anymore.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#127

Post by [deleted] »

aashiks wrote: post #64
abhishivsaxena wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for lying so brazenly. Wish could downvote you. > Even worse, the government of India is selling access to this database to private companies to use and combine with other datasets as they wish. This would allow companies to have access to some of your most intimate details and create detailed profiles of you, in ways you can’t necessarily see or control. Liar, the information they get is your name/dob/gend…

I am not Kiran. Aadhar stores a lot more. Are you that stupid ? Usage/Frequency of access by whom and for whom etc (logs) are also data. I take it that you are not in the know of how things actually work, that the problem with Aadhar is using biometrics as a mechanism of validation.

[deleted]

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#128

Post by _nedR »

realonedev wrote: post #28

I belong to the third world of the third world. State called Uttar Pradesh. If you consider India as 3rd world, then UP is 3rd world of India. Here are the emotional benefits of Aadhar : My parents don't have to bribe the local gas connections distribution agents. Which means, No need to stay in long queue from 8 In the morning, not to get your cooking cylinder, but to pay the bribe. Since the government has advertis…

My folks also loved aadhar because of the cheap gas. Not because of bribes ( i guess its not an issue in Kerala) but because the government would give subsidy to those who had aadhar cards. So people sold their privacy to the govt, in exchange for cheap gas.

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#129

Post by captn3m0 »

hackuser wrote: post #105

Is the Indian government now also doing astroturfing? Does anyone know about any serious research or reporting on it? Chinese and Russian operations are well-known and reported, but I haven't heard of Indian ones. Seeing the same, generally weak talking points, angrily defending the Indian government, advocating nationalistic points of view, and repeated over and over - it all reminds me of threads critical of China…

BJP (the current ruling part) is known to have a social media trolling unit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/27/india-bjp-part....

Re: Aadhaar isn’t progress – it’s dystopian and dangerous

#130

Post by aashiks »

abhishivsaxena wrote: post #108
aashiks wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not Kiran. Aadhar stores a lot more. Are you that stupid ? Usage/Frequency of access by whom and for whom etc (logs) are also data. I take it that you are not in the know of how things actually work, that the problem with Aadhar is using biometrics as a mechanism of validation.

So when you said "intimate details" you meant logs. Ok. Btw, Aadhaar doesn't store for what you authenticating, or where you are authenticating. That's another lie you are using to fear monger. But in the end it doesn't matter. 1.3B+ Indians see the benefit of it. And are using it everyday by doing millions of transaction. Keep on fear mongering. It's not having any effect.

No I meant biometrics as well.
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