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Let them paste passwords

ncsc.gov.uk

121–130 of 376 posts

Re: Let them paste passwords

#121
There is a subtle valid use-case.

On "change your password" screens, you don't want the second "confirm password" field to be pastle-able to stop this scenario.

1) User tries to type "mypassword" but enters "mypasswor" instead.

2) User copy-pastes "mypasswor" into "confirm password field"

3) User hits "submit".

Now when the user tries to login with "mypassword" it fails.

Re: Let them paste passwords

#122
There is a subtle valid use-case.

On "change your password" screens, you don't want the second "confirm password" field to be pastle-able to stop this scenario.

1) User tries to type "mypassword" but enters "mypasswor" instead.

2) User copy-pastes "mypasswor" into "confirm password field"

3) User hits "submit".

Now when the user tries to login with "mypassword" it fails.

Re: Let them paste passwords

#123
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if you can remember your password, its probably too weak As XKCD famously pointed out[0], Diceware[1]-style pass phrases can be both secure and memorable. XKCD's four word example isn't secure when fast brute-force attacks are feasible, but eight words is still easily memorable and secure enough for anything. The important point here is that "random words" really does mean "random", i.e. not picked by a human. [0] h…

I thought password cracking machines now guess words as well as characters? Like they will guess all 8 character passwords and will also guess all 6 word passwords using common words like they guess characters? Therefore using just a few common words stuck together with nothing else is no longer secure? (This is a genuine question because I could be totally wrong on that, I can't even remember where I heard it)

They can, but still the passphrases are much more secure simply because there are enough different words.

Re: Let them paste passwords

#124
post #15
post #8

"Justification 2: 'Pasting passwords makes them easier to forget, because you have fewer chances to practise them'." if you can remember your password, its probably too weak

So by definition your password manager master key is weak? That's an interesting paradox!

I don't even have the ability to read my password manager's master key, since all passwords are encrypted with different AES keys, which is then encrypted with a private key I have no ability to read (only ask my smartcard to perform RSA on, if I can authenticate to it).

hunter2 is the password manager I wrote for this: https://chiselapp.com/user/rkeene/repository/hunter2/

Re: Let them paste passwords

#125
post #92
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not allowing + in an email field is one of my pet peeves. Congrats on finding an amazing-looking regex for email validation instead of thinking about it.

Yup. The most email validation I evern implement is "there must be an @ sign with stuff before and after the @ sign". Maybe require a dot in the latter space.

Strictly speaking, the dot in the latter space isn't actually necessary. It needs to be a resolvable domain, but if you bought a TLD you could be "name@tld"

Re: Let them paste passwords

#126

Of course it reduces security. It makes you resort to either 1.) typing it out manually while you can't see if you made a mistake 2.) using developer tools to set the 'value' attribute directly "SPP" discourages use of a password manager. End of story. I also see this pattern used on banking websites for inputs like an account number. This drives me crazy as well for the same reason. The computer can get it right mor…

>> 1.) typing it out manually while you can't see if you made a mistake This is my pet peeve. Password fields should not be obfuscated by default. It should be a toggle that is off on page load. Shoulder surfing is a corner case.

Cameras are everywhere in public spaces, and most people wouldn't notice a password field wasn't obfuscated until they've already started typing. Defaulting to obfuscated seems the only sensible option.

Re: Let them paste passwords

#127
post #82

Of course it reduces security. It makes you resort to either 1.) typing it out manually while you can't see if you made a mistake 2.) using developer tools to set the 'value' attribute directly "SPP" discourages use of a password manager. End of story. I also see this pattern used on banking websites for inputs like an account number. This drives me crazy as well for the same reason. The computer can get it right mor…

It's interesting that a lot of us are assuming that pasting encourages the use of password managers. However; I worry that this is a very BIG assumption. Even in my IT-literate circles password management usage is low. In my non-IT circles it is non-existent, and not because of SPP particularly; I suspect SPP (which I agree is silly) derived from an understanding that allowing an average person to paste passwords mea…

Why are you worried? Regardless of whether avoiding SPP 'encourages,' that is, actively advocates for the use of password managers, we can agree that implementing SPP 'discourages' the use of password managers, right? So is there some risk I'm not seeing in 'enabling but not overtly advocating for' the use of password managers?

Re: Let them paste passwords

#128

Of course it reduces security. It makes you resort to either 1.) typing it out manually while you can't see if you made a mistake 2.) using developer tools to set the 'value' attribute directly "SPP" discourages use of a password manager. End of story. I also see this pattern used on banking websites for inputs like an account number. This drives me crazy as well for the same reason. The computer can get it right mor…

Other signs that a site was built by incompetent developers (Or had too much management interference--Devs aren't always to blame!): Only works with Internet Explorer Doesn't work with Internet Explorer Password must have one of 4-10 special characters, but not other special characters. (e.g.: Must contain !, @, ^, &, or parentheses, but not ;, ", etc) Passwords have no requirements Right-click is disabled Video play…

Don't blame me for some of those things, blame my clients. I can only suggest so many times that something is bad practice, without getting fired.

Re: Let them paste passwords

#129
post #82

Of course it reduces security. It makes you resort to either 1.) typing it out manually while you can't see if you made a mistake 2.) using developer tools to set the 'value' attribute directly "SPP" discourages use of a password manager. End of story. I also see this pattern used on banking websites for inputs like an account number. This drives me crazy as well for the same reason. The computer can get it right mor…

It's interesting that a lot of us are assuming that pasting encourages the use of password managers. However; I worry that this is a very BIG assumption. Even in my IT-literate circles password management usage is low. In my non-IT circles it is non-existent, and not because of SPP particularly; I suspect SPP (which I agree is silly) derived from an understanding that allowing an average person to paste passwords mea…

I don't think the assumption is pasting encourages password managers. The assumption is not allowing pasting discourages password managers.

Re: Let them paste passwords

#130
post #82

Of course it reduces security. It makes you resort to either 1.) typing it out manually while you can't see if you made a mistake 2.) using developer tools to set the 'value' attribute directly "SPP" discourages use of a password manager. End of story. I also see this pattern used on banking websites for inputs like an account number. This drives me crazy as well for the same reason. The computer can get it right mor…

It's interesting that a lot of us are assuming that pasting encourages the use of password managers. However; I worry that this is a very BIG assumption. Even in my IT-literate circles password management usage is low. In my non-IT circles it is non-existent, and not because of SPP particularly; I suspect SPP (which I agree is silly) derived from an understanding that allowing an average person to paste passwords mea…

I think you have the causality backwards. If someone's storing passwords in a text file on their desktop, they will probably copy/paste those passwords if the functionality is available. However, they're probably storing their passwords somewhere because they have trouble remembering them, which doesn't change if you block pasting. You can have a passwords.txt file and just consult it to type in your password every time. In theory that might help you remember it after being forced to type it a few dozen times, but many of the sites that block pasting also force password rotation riiight around when you finally start remembering it.
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