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The End of Men

theatlantic.com

121–130 of 130 posts

Re: The End of Men

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's funny, because it seems to me like the entirety of white males have some sort of superiority complex.

As a human, it seems to me like other humans, especially those who identify as part of a group, have some sort of superiority complex.

Also as a human, it seems to me that humans have an inferiority complex underlying that superiority complex

Re: The End of Men

#122
post #9

For a fun exercise, try replacing "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people" throughout this article, and speculate on whether The Atlantic would have published it. "What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to white people?" "White people live longer than black people. They do better in this economy. More of ’em graduate from college. They go into space and do everything black peo…

try replacing "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people" Well, try replacing "women" with "black people" and "men" with "white people" and they would most certainly publish it. In fact, any time the slightest improvement in the fortune of any allegedly-mistreated group occurs (women, blacks, whatever) it is trumpeted and paraded endlessly. Anyway, the article didn't point out two salient facts: 1. Wome…

> 1. Women still lag in almost everything that matters (engineering, entrepreneurship, science, math)

The assumption that engineering, entrepreneurship, science, math are everything that matters, is seriously problematic, and is likely at the core of the genuine gender inequality that gets the feminists upset.

Re: The End of Men

#124
post #87
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there is an orchestrating hand. This is what teachers are taught to teach in teaching colleges. This is why men who want to become teachers (here in the UK at least) are forced through the humiliating process of proving that they are not paedophiles. Perhaps the political theorists behind it haven't thought it through, but emasculating men is policy.

Perhaps the political theorists behind it haven't thought it through, but emasculating men is policy. The first part of this sentence contradicts the second. Emasculating men is not policy. Emasculating men is an unintended side-effect of policy. The creators of that policy, in turn, were shaped by their own education, and so-forth in a cycle of positive feedback. Even if you want to find some ruling class to single…

Emasculating men is deliberate. The second-order effects (e.g. kids without a strong male role model having behavioural problems) were perhaps unexpected.

Re: The End of Men

#125
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

try replacing "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people" Well, try replacing "women" with "black people" and "men" with "white people" and they would most certainly publish it. In fact, any time the slightest improvement in the fortune of any allegedly-mistreated group occurs (women, blacks, whatever) it is trumpeted and paraded endlessly. Anyway, the article didn't point out two salient facts: 1. Wome…

Parents prefer girls over boys for the same reason they used to do the opposite: Because that is the gender more likely to take care of them in their old age. No one wants girls because of "empowerment" or whatever PC bullshit journalists happen to be obsessed with. I'm not sure to what extent people think that far ahead. If there's an expressed preference for girls over boys it's because: a) Girls are often easier t…

> Mothers prefer daughters while fathers prefer sons, but fathers tend to keep their mouths shut about it

Hahaha, so true.

Myself I couldn't care less ... I actually wanted a girl because I see girls being more close to their parents (a selfish thought) ... but now my wife is carrying a boy, and I started thinking of all the father-son stuff we can do, and I'm really excited.

About the article ... I wouldn't be too worried, unless there is a provable reason for the current bias towards girls. In other countries women that don't get pregnant with boys are getting abortions at an alarming rate, making it very hard for men in their 20-ties to get mates (guess they should come to the US :))

Re: The End of Men

#126
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative theory: "modern, postindustrial society" means dysfunctional economy. > Men dominate just two of the 15 job categories projected to grow the most over the next decade: janitor and computer engineer. Women have everything else--nursing, home health assistance, child care, food preparation. We're living in a country where almost all the projected growth professions produce no capital or exports. This is rea…

See also: everyone who's written about how continued GDP growth in industrial countries is both pointless in terms of improving quality of life, and a bad idea environmentally. For example, commercialized child care and food service are a huge distortion of traditional household duties.

Links please? I have not read these studies and would like to.

Re: The End of Men

#127
post #58
post #27

On the bright side, I don't think many people reading Hacker News fall in to the category of brutish, construction worker-type. :) I did work construction when I was younger, and I must say, I enjoyed it immensely. I always love to help out someone build a shed or throw up some drywall. It's just plain fun to build things with your hands, even if you're mainly doing the work with your finger-tips these days.

Not to say that physical work is always great, in fact many times it isn't, but i find the devaluation of it a little troubling, I did physical work on and off several years, there is immense value and satisfaction in building and creating with your hands.

Very much agree. I've really come to accept the best way for me to work is with my brain sitting at a desk.

If I want to create with my hands the fight for free time becomes imperative. I've been working to find a sustainable lifestyle that has room for a little extra time off for years. Free time has the single biggest effect on quality of life in my opinion. Having time for physical work is great, but the beauty is free time can be used for anything.

Re: The End of Men

#128
The article touches on relationship desire among professional women a bit.

I know a few recent nursing school graduates, they tell me the running joke in the medical profession is that all the successful women are merely hunting for a successful mate(with a doctor being the brass ring).

Career as means to long term relationship might seem misogynistic, but there's also the common male stereotype of men chasing money primarily to attract women.

I'm not presenting real evidence here, maybe a survey of professional women and their relationship goals would be enlightening.

Re: The End of Men

#129
post #10
post #5

What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women? What if modern, postindustrial society is simply hostile to males in return for all the past hostility to females? edit: apparently axle replied while I had my lament on the state of scholarships. Summarized: out of literally thousands available after pre-filtered (however poorly), I had to toss out all but a dozen or two because I'm white and m…

The problem is really that you likely have not been anything else apart from a male WASP. See, there is no institution working against you. These things you are complaining about not getting are not the main product, they are shortcuts. A scholarship is not the normal way of studying, it's a shortcut way, for people who have something working against them. A woman (and a black guy) have institutions against them. The…

axle:

I'm with you. Don't let HN's pro-kyriarchy[1] mob mentality get to you. Most of them somehow missed the fact that 1 in 5 women are still raped in college[2]. They also fail to realize that rape is HEAVILY underreported on most college campuses. They don't realize that women (and girls) are often blamed for causing their own rapes, blamed for "participating" in the crimes committed against them[3], or that rape of women is still part of male lore[4][5]. Find me the "balance" in that. Tell me when exactly we've hit it.

They fail to realize that we're not "done" solving the real issue of ingrained prejudices just because women are getting educated and have jobs. They don't realize that self-hating racism and sexism is just as ingrained in the underprivileged minorities. They don't realize it, of course, because white men have never been underprivileged minorities. They don't realize that it's a lifetime struggle not just with a world, to accept you for who you are, but with yourself[6][7].

They don't realize that unrealistic body image expectations are eroding women's sense of self worth[8]. They don't realize how it warps the mind, changes priorities, and restricts what choices women make, despite any actual or supposed abundance of choice. They don't realize that in many dark-skinned nations there is now a separate "white" beauty standard that competes with the beauty standard that makes sense for them, culturally[9][10].

If you think that being liberal and educated absolves you of playing into this kyriarchy, then it's possible that you've never even heard that color blindness theory creates racism[11], and you've probably never heard of anything about any moral credential bias[12]. You've probably also never heard of the myriad ways in which the patriarchy actually hurts men[13].

They fail to realize that for someone else to gain some power, the currently privileged must give up some of that power[14]. They're not whining because "we're missing the balance", they're whining because they're personally losing some privilege. In a fight for equality, that's supposed to happen, but they hate it. They see it, take note, and fight back. They don't realize that other men are already fighting back[15][16][17]. They don't get what they, presonally, did to deserve losing anything.

If you think there's no unjustified racism in Arizona[18], you must be kidding yourself. Or, I guess, you must be a privileged Arizonian. If you think there's no sexism despite your one-claim-trumps-all job statistic, you must be joking. Or, I guess, you must be a white male. The most important privilege that you have is the privilege to ignore your own privilege.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyriarchy

[2] http://www.cpbn.org/program/where-we-live/episode/wwl-sexual...

[3] http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2010/06/05/but-why-shouldnt-sh...

[4] http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-pre...

[5] http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/10/rape-culture-...

[6] http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2008/08/worst-enemy.h...

[7] http://refusethesilenceblog.com/post/631417596/intern-blogge...

[8] http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1247008...

[9] http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaceOff/weight-debate-fat/st...

[10] http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2010/05/expect-black-...

[11] http://news.illinois.edu/news/10/0421online.html

[12] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_credential

[13] http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/06/in-which-anot...

[14] http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/faq-what-...

[15] http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2007/10/explainer-wha...

[16] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Collier_Township_shooting

[17] http://contexts.org/socimages/2009/08/14/guest-post-dead-gir...

[18] http://wonkette.com/415809/arizona-school-demands-black-lati...

Oh, and HN? I'm utterly ashamed of you for voting axle down so vehemently. In the future, when you speak from a position of privilege (and I don't just mean white privilege or male privilege, because privilege comes in many shapes), please, please also do your research before spewing knee-jerk nonsense.

Re: The End of Men

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

try replacing "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people" Well, try replacing "women" with "black people" and "men" with "white people" and they would most certainly publish it. In fact, any time the slightest improvement in the fortune of any allegedly-mistreated group occurs (women, blacks, whatever) it is trumpeted and paraded endlessly. Anyway, the article didn't point out two salient facts: 1. Wome…

You are right about 1 anyway. I would love to see how the sex is distributed over fields where you are likely to earn at least 50% more than those who don't have a similar degree. I don't really count a degree in communication or womens studies as a college degree at the same level as math, biology or medicine.

"I don't really count a degree in communication or womens studies as a college degree." FTFY
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