Live data from Hacker News

Introducing Token

blog.tokenbrowser.com

121–130 of 157 posts

Re: Introducing Token

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because he wrote this: > or the people running the network decide upon a hard fork? which screams malice aforethought to people. The idea is that Ethereum had a hard fork which has divided people across two sides. To average people, you can get them to take any side depending upon how you compose the questions. You ask a non-techie: 1. What would you think if a company like Venmo decides to revert donations you…

I actually thought twice about writing that because it does seem a little unfair. The Eth guys didn't want to do that hard fork and I'm sure they have no intentions of ever having one again. But that was the case before the first fork. There was no indication that was going to happen then, either. so if it's five years from now, more people are relying on Ethereum and something we can't anticipate requires (truly or…

> Can you convince users that won't happen under any circumstances? We have a precedent.

I have seen this common fallacy which exists across all areas (Especially around security), but the best example of this was when Apple revealed that it received orders from FBI to help them unlock a terrorist's iPhone.

Majority of the people were making arguments such as "But what is it to stop FBI from using this special software to crack other people's iPhones", which misses the point that if FBI can force Apple to issue a custom ROM which allows them to crack into a phone, then the security exploit already exists, it doesn't start to exist when Apple signs such a ROM.

Same goes here, if hard forking to alter the ledger is 'breaking immutability' then all blockchains are not immutable, they don't start becoming immutable the moment they fork the blockchain.

Take it another way, if you could go back in time and convince Ethereum community to not hard fork, is Ethereum blockchain more immutable in that timeline? In fact, you don't have to go that far, currently there exists a fork of Ethereum blockchain which didn't decide to go with the hard fork, is Ethereum Classic more immutable than Ethereum main chain?

The fact is the DAO hardfork was made possible because of one reason:

The DAO locked the funds of the hacker into a smart contract for 30 days. If the hacker got spending access to his Ethers, then this hard fork would not have been possible because it would mean reverting very legitimate transactions where people have transacted goods/services for Ether (not to mention, community would not have gone for the hard fork if that were the case).

> Seems perfectly fair and not an invalid question if we are talking about people in the real world using Ethereum and not just a bunch of early adopters. Is it not?

People in real world, if they fully understand the concept of Hard fork, are even more pro-hard fork than majority of Ethereum users. Remember, the non-blockchain world is as far from immutability as possible. Nearly all credit card companies offer reversible transactions, nearly all ecommerce sites offer you ability to get refunded if something goes wrong.

A bunch of early adopters are the only one who cry 'immutability'. We come from the software world, so we know why immutability is a desirable thing, but to an average person mutability or immutability is a meaningless distinction. They all expect mutability to the default.

Re: Introducing Token

#122

I'm not sure "Browser" is a good term for this; I get that they are trying to convey that it's just a client for the existing independent Etherium network, but to 99% of people, "browser" == "web browser". It's just going to cause confusion, especially in non-technical users (which seems to be a user base they are trying to go for here). Even as a developer, when I saw "tokenbrowser.com", I was expecting to see a web…

Hmm, I'm going swim against the current and say I like the fact that it's called a browser. I like this because it is a browser, albeit not a web browser. I think this is exactly what's missing from blockchain-derived technologies: a simple human interface to remote resources. More to the point, calling this thing a browser anchors it firmly into a well-known context. This should be useful for explaining it to our pa…

[deleted]

Re: Introducing Token

#124
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum has a 14-second block time and plans to shorten it to about four seconds with proof-of-stake. Offline transactions are pretty simple to implement: http://www.blunderingcode.com/a-lightning-network-in-two-pag... There are various stablecoin projects too, either backed by someone's offchain assets or using derivative contracts. Personally I think stability will come naturally to the native currency as it gets…

I think bitcoin itself is prone to constant deflation due to the 21-million coin cap and an expanding market. Derivative contracts sounds like an interesting approach to this problem - could you point me to a paper or post on that? I'll definitely have to look into ethereum more deeply - it sounds like it might have the key features I believe are necessary.

The two best-known stablecoin derivative projects are Maker and Stabl:

https://makerdao.com/

https://media.consensys.net/stabl-bringing-stable-tokens-and...

Re: Introducing Token

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More to the point, calling this thing a browser anchors it firmly into a well-known context. This should be useful for explaining it to our parents. I think if I told my mom this was a browser, she would be confused to see something that looks more like her text message than a web page.

I'm going to gently accuse you of intellectual dishonesty, here ;) In the phrasing you chose, you imply that it's a web browser -- this is the source of the hypothetical confusion. Now try this: "Mom, this is a lot like a web browser (i.e. firefox, chrome, etc) but it's not for web pages. It's for a different kind of content". Surely you'll admit this a helpful description...

Not at all. Non-experts will always consider only the outward appearance rather than the technical structure, since the latter is basically invisible to them. (Compare for exampl how hackers are depicted on mass media. Same principle.)

Re: Introducing Token

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I'm looking at the Apache LDAP browser right now. Not a spec of HTML anywhere.

"Apache Directory Studio™: The Eclipse-based LDAP browser and directory client" Sounds like that is a tool meant for technical users, e.g. IT staff, though, not general users.

Is this not HN????

Re: Introducing Token

#127
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The domain name is click bait?

theysaidadomainnamecouldntbeclickbaityoullneverbelievewhathappenednext.com

https://www.godaddy.com/domains/searchresults.aspx?checkAvai...

> We were unable to complete your search. Please try again.

Re: Introducing Token

#128

I'm not sure "Browser" is a good term for this; I get that they are trying to convey that it's just a client for the existing independent Etherium network, but to 99% of people, "browser" == "web browser". It's just going to cause confusion, especially in non-technical users (which seems to be a user base they are trying to go for here). Even as a developer, when I saw "tokenbrowser.com", I was expecting to see a web…

> I'm not sure "Browser" is a good term for this

Having been on the marketing side of a consumer product which used "browser" to describe what it was, I can confirm that "browser" = "web browser" to nearly everyone (analysts included) and is truly, sincerely not worth fighting.

In my experience, until they fix the "browser" positioning, nearly every conversation they have with anyone who might care about the actual product will include 2-5 minutes of explaining and rationalizing the use of a word that people already believe they understand.

Re: Introducing Token

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More to the point, calling this thing a browser anchors it firmly into a well-known context. This should be useful for explaining it to our parents. I think if I told my mom this was a browser, she would be confused to see something that looks more like her text message than a web page.

I'm going to gently accuse you of intellectual dishonesty, here ;) In the phrasing you chose, you imply that it's a web browser -- this is the source of the hypothetical confusion. Now try this: "Mom, this is a lot like a web browser (i.e. firefox, chrome, etc) but it's not for web pages. It's for a different kind of content". Surely you'll admit this a helpful description...

Or this: "Mom, this is a chat program that has its own apps".

I don't know about you, but my Mom would find this explanation a lot more helpful than the browser one.

Re: Introducing Token

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to gently accuse you of intellectual dishonesty, here ;) In the phrasing you chose, you imply that it's a web browser -- this is the source of the hypothetical confusion. Now try this: "Mom, this is a lot like a web browser (i.e. firefox, chrome, etc) but it's not for web pages. It's for a different kind of content". Surely you'll admit this a helpful description...

Not at all. Non-experts will always consider only the outward appearance rather than the technical structure, since the latter is basically invisible to them. (Compare for exampl how hackers are depicted on mass media. Same principle.)

>Non-experts will always consider only the outward appearance rather than the technical structure

Exactly, and this thing behaves (outwardly) a lot like a web browser. It's just not browsing the web.

The description is useful for hilighting the similarities between both artefacts, mostly because Token is, stricto-sensu, a browser!

Post reply on HN