Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

observer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 232 posts

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#121

Post by rdl »

cestith wrote: post #115
rdl wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he had renter's insurance or something, or some other form of liability insurance? (I don't know how this works in the UK). If I were the lessor/host, I'd demand Airbnb pay 100% and then let them go after whichever other parties they want later. The host should not be the one on the hook for any of this, including float for however long reimbursement takes. (If I were Airbnb I'd probably sue the guest; clearly…

I'd be surprised if residential renter's insurance in the US, UK, or Canada covered things done during a daily sublet of the space without some special rider policy. This customer should be covered well enough by AirBNB's agreement, which apparently only with the help of The Observer is actually the case.

I think it would be easy for a policy to waive contents insurance in such a case, but a lot more challenging if it waived liability. (Otherwise, as a condo association or whatever, you could be potentially ruined if any condo owner owns a unit, has "full insurance" as required, and sublets/has a guest burn the entire building down.) Insurers have far deeper pockets than individual property owners, guests, or condo associations. It's possible the condo association would have additional liability insurance above and beyond this which would step in, though.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#122

Post by m-i-l »

Not defending Airbnb's behaviour, but this sort of thing happens outside of Airbnb too. I had some tenants (sons of a well known rock star) cause around £10K worth of damage to my flat in Shoreditch (plus around £5K in lost rent given the amount of time it took to repair) a few years back. In that case the letting agency I used was no help because they said it was a private matter between myself and the tenants, the insurance was no good because they said that amount of damage could not be accidental and they didn't cover malicious damage, and the legal system was no help because it favours tenants. In fact I might even have been better off with Airbnb.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#123

Post by jacquesm »

DanBC wrote: post #88

This email exchange reads like something from Black Mirror. https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/emailexchang... It's amazing he didn't go and firebomb AirBnB. This kind of communication would leave me incandescent with rage.

Firebombing might have been a bit much but that conversation makes me wonder WTF is going on at AirBNB, it's like two people talking on entirely different wavelengths with the CSR not even taking the most cursory interest in the supplied documents. Incredible, especially given that the host has already done his best to limit the amount.

So essentially AirBNB's guarantee that they cover damage done by guests is hollow.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#124

Post by PeterisP »

supercanuck wrote: post #114
PeterisP wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bribe would be accurate if they were offering payment outside someone else's remediation process. Apparently payments+NDA are part of the remediation process that they actually set up in practice. There's also no reason to assume why a private remediation process should be universal and the same for everyone, it's not a court - it would be unfair to close down options that they advertised, but it's completely reasona…

If everything is case-by-case and determined by "eligibility," what is the purpose of the word Guarantee here, and funds released are subject to conditions having nothing to do with the actual rental (e.g. an NDA)? Seems to me, using the words "Guarantee", "Trust" "Peace of Mind" is no different than the customer using the term "Bribe". but maybe this is just situation where consumers need law degrees to fully unders…

But they ARE honestly fulfilling the guarantee - the host is able to get the requested damages. Yes, it's not an unconditional, no questions asked compensation, but it's not advertised as such. Terms and conditions apply, just as it's reasonable to expect e.g. paperwork and evidence of damages before funds are released. It would be dishonest if they had included terms or conditions that are unreasonable or difficult to fulfil, but an NDA isn't such a condition; it doesn't disqualify anyone who wants to finalize the dispute. Just as it would be very reasonable if the release of funds was conditional on an agreement not to sue for further damages, i.e., that the guarantee happens only if it's agreed to be the final resolution of this matter.

The described events don't seem to violate any promise that was actually advertised, the only mismatch is between reality and wishful thinking.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#125

Post by princeb »

exclusiv wrote: post #67
AlexandrB wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It's almost like hotel regulations happened for a reason and not because "the man is out to get entrepreneurs".

What regulations are you referring to that would prevent this? You can just as easily book a hotel and throw a party there and do all sorts of damage. They don't take much of a deposit either (or they hold a card) because there's a fine line between protecting yourself and a sensible amount for your average guest. The problem here is that AirBnB takes a good chunk of a booking and doesn't do much to vet guests. They…

don't think regulations will help, but this definitely does: hotels can charge the renters' credit cards for damage done to the property, but airbnb hosts cannot do that to renters. so the risk to the hotel is minimized. i'm sure if someone damages a room so badly that they have to refurnish the whole thing, they'll happily bill the guest for replacement, item delivery, labour, yield loss, the whole thing - mark up the whole repair job the same way they mark up the peanuts in the minibar.

the other thing that helps is that whatever happens in a hotel is not happening to a place of permanent residence- someone's home. if partygoers cause damage that spills into my room, I can get another room. if partygoers next door cause damage that spills into my house, i'm out of luck (not to mention so is the host).

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#126

Post by tptacek »

542458 wrote: post #118
tptacek wrote: post #87

The irony of YC's flagship startup forcing exploding term sheets on their customers is a bit much to take. [ ps ] Airbnb's statement concluding this story says that this interaction fell short of their expectations. Maybe they can go a bit farther. Can they commit (just a comment here would suffice) to not using the exploding-settlement tactic with their clients? Maybe all they'd really need to say is that nobody out…

Edit: My apologies, I misunderstood what exploding meant in this context. My bad! --- I'm not really sure the term sheet is "exploding". If I'm reading it right, it basically says "I absolve AirBNB of any further responsibility, and I agree not to talk about this payout". That's pretty common for a whole bunch of reasons [1]. [1]: http://www.americanbar.org/publications/gp_solo/2012/novembe...

"Exploding" refers to the fact that it expired in 24 hours.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#127

Post by will_brown »

tptacek wrote: post #87

The irony of YC's flagship startup forcing exploding term sheets on their customers is a bit much to take. [ ps ] Airbnb's statement concluding this story says that this interaction fell short of their expectations. Maybe they can go a bit farther. Can they commit (just a comment here would suffice) to not using the exploding-settlement tactic with their clients? Maybe all they'd really need to say is that nobody out…

Thats a pretty unreasonable request that a billion dollar company agree not to include deadlines in their settlement offers moving forward.

In fact I've never heard of a settlement agreement without a deadline, it wouldn't amount to malpractice but it would be pretty negligent to offer any type of settlement agreement on open ended terms of acceptance. As to the NDA/confidentiality, that too is the default of settlemenre, and if this were in litigation any settlement talks/negotiations are confidential by rules of the court.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#128

Post by BeetleB »

Marazan wrote: post #52
dvdhnt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems as if he is only trying to get paid for his damages and not even considering the damage and disruption to his neighbors (who unlike the host are wholly blameless in this manner). I don't agree with this. Obviously, if a bystander's property was damaged, this would be true, however, the idea of being paid for a "disruption" is silly. It's called life and it's full of annoyances. I'd argue the people angling…

Hey, if some chooses to live next to a hotel then that's there choice. If a unlicensed hotel opens next to them (i.e. an airbnb rental) then they have been impinged on.

This will normally be covered by local laws or HOAs. It makes sense for neighbors to go after the person, but not to go after AirBnB.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#129

Post by blackguardx »

m-i-l wrote: post #122

Not defending Airbnb's behaviour, but this sort of thing happens outside of Airbnb too. I had some tenants (sons of a well known rock star) cause around £10K worth of damage to my flat in Shoreditch (plus around £5K in lost rent given the amount of time it took to repair) a few years back. In that case the letting agency I used was no help because they said it was a private matter between myself and the tenants, the…

How did you resolve it? Did you just eat the loss?

In the US, the best recourse would probably be to sue or file a police report for destruction of property. Neither of those are great options, but they might end up being arrested depending on the municipality.

Post reply on HN