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Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

gizmodo.co.uk

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Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#121

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

dev_head_up wrote: post #102
andrewla wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that link, in between all the rhetoric it's hard to get a clear signal. Do you happen to have any idea where that data comes from? It seems a little suspicious only because the dates chosen for comparisons seems a little cherry-picked, so it's hard to tell if the changes are routine or exceptional. > Only 96 nurses joined the NHS from other European nations in December 2016 – a drop from 1,304 in July, the…

And how many were hired in the previous December? When it comes to The Guardian, I find that numbers can be very "flexible" when the narrative demands it.

This will become clear over time. All too clear, I fear.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#122

Post by dragonwriter »

blowski wrote: post #42
jacquesm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you are correct, or at least, the UK supreme court thinks that you are not correct: https://www.businessinsider.nl/uk-supreme-court-article-50-n...

It's possible they could extend negotiations. As long as the EU and UK parliaments both agree to do that, they can do whatever they like, as they can just change the law to support whatever they're trying to do. Whether there will be enough public support to do that is another matter entirely. Perhaps there will be another general election or referendum which will muddy the waters. If the last year has taught us anyt…

> As long as the EU and UK parliaments both agree to do that

Under Article 50(3), extensions can only be granted by unanimity in the Council. The EP and Council both need to agree to a final agreement, but the EP doesn't seem to be involved in extensions at all.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on...

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#123

Post by jacquesm »

anigbrowl wrote: post #118
jacquesm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the chances of the Brexit process collapsing just collapsed themselves. The only way to do that was to not trigger Article 50.

Oh nonsense. If enough people change their minds there will be another referendum or some crisis meetings. 'We can't stop it now,' is self-destructive rationalization.

That's the UK politicians position, not mine. They could have easily stopped last week. "brexit means brexit" and "no deal we leave anyway". Blustering tough talk but who it is supposed to impress I'm not sure about. The self-destructive element is on the UK side and the sooner they realize it the better.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#124

Post by jacquesm »

dragonwriter wrote: post #120
rmc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unclear if A50 can actually be revoked. There is a court case (starting in Ireland, with the goal of getting to the CJEU in Luxembourg ASAP) which is trying to answer that question. If the CJEU says that A50 cannot be revoked, then the Houses of Parliament can do whatever they want, they're leaving. They would be free to rejoin. Euro, schengen, and metricification are mandatory now though.

> They would be free to rejoin. Euro, schengen, and metricification are mandatory now though. Well, in principle they could get unanimous consent on concessions again , they just don't come pre-baked.

There has been a lot of fuss about those concessions in the past, I really wonder to what extent the poorer EU countries that had no say in this when those concessions were given would be willing to give the UK something they themselves had to give up to join. That might not go over well and there are a lot of those countries now. That's a dangerous game of roulette.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#125

Post by anigbrowl »

jacquesm wrote: post #123
anigbrowl wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh nonsense. If enough people change their minds there will be another referendum or some crisis meetings. 'We can't stop it now,' is self-destructive rationalization.

That's the UK politicians position, not mine. They could have easily stopped last week. "brexit means brexit" and "no deal we leave anyway". Blustering tough talk but who it is supposed to impress I'm not sure about. The self-destructive element is on the UK side and the sooner they realize it the better.

Agreed. Sorry for being snarky, I'm just frustrated by the stupidity of the whole thing.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#126

Post by user5994461 »

TorKlingberg wrote: post #46
5040 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely this is a victory for Poland?

That depends, are there companies in Poland that can make good use of his specific skills? You cannot ignore the effects of matching people with the jobs where they are most productive. People moving between countries is not a zero sum game.

There are some decent companies on the tech area. Poland is one of the "cheap" EU countries with decent workers, that's a good reason to have a big office there.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#127

Post by user5994461 »

dijit wrote: post #32
sdiepend wrote: post #19

good quote from the comments: Overlord_Dave • 11 minutes ago Remember guys and gals, the plural of anecdote is not data

The thing is, I agree this article is low quality but the compound nature of brexit+snoopers charter+uncertainty with companies is certainly affecting the attractiveness of the country. I'm British, I left to go work in Sweden for a couple years while my girlfriend finished her studies here, since I've been here we've had _significant_ challenges and erosions of rights and privacy in the UK, the EU (with all its wart…

>>> If there is another place companies go, the brains will undoubtedly follow.

Companies want the brain to go there, the brains want the company there to go there. Circular dependency.

That's why there are only few tech hubs and they won't change.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#128

Post by jacquesm »

anigbrowl wrote: post #125
jacquesm wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the UK politicians position, not mine. They could have easily stopped last week. "brexit means brexit" and "no deal we leave anyway". Blustering tough talk but who it is supposed to impress I'm not sure about. The self-destructive element is on the UK side and the sooner they realize it the better.

Agreed. Sorry for being snarky, I'm just frustrated by the stupidity of the whole thing.

> I'm just frustrated by the stupidity of the whole thing.

Join the club. I did not believe that May would be silly enough to push this through as far as she has, it's like watching someone aim a gun at their feet and pulling the trigger in slow motion.

She won't be remembered kindly.

The UK spent decades pulling itself out of the slump it was in in the mid 80's of the last century, now it is rushing as fast as it can to repeat the experience.

The only silver lining I can see here is that if once brexit is a fact the rejoining could happen rapidly after the Scots break away from the union and England and Wales (and possibly Northern Ireland) realize that it's not working out. But say goodbye to the pound and any exceptions the UK has right now in that case.

It's an own goal if there ever was one.

And no worries about being snarky, it's totally understandable, fortunately I'm on this side of the channel where the impact will be spread out. If I had my eggs in the UK basket I would be a lot less agreeable than merely snarky.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#129

Post by jacquesm »

jerf wrote: post #45
mdekkers wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is totally unrestricted immigration of low-skilled individuals that the government (and it's fair to say the British population) are opposed to. This may be the case. Brexit is the dumbest solution to that particular problem though.

Had any other solutions been made available, Brexit probably wouldn't be happening. The EU chose to not make solutions available and stuck it into a "take it or leave it" basket. It seems to me to be a recurring pattern with over-centralized government that they start using more and more of their power this way; you can see it in the US now too, for instance in the way the Trump administration is continuing to saber…

Jerf, you're a smart fellow, this comment is not at your usual level. The EU exists solely to reduce the chances of war, further commerce and to reduce the profile of nation states.

The 'take it or leave it' attitude has to do with the founding principles of the EU, if a club has a founding principle and you do not wish to subscribe to it then by definition you can't be part of the club. Putting the founding principles of the EU on the chopping block to deal with the internals of a single country is not acceptable.

In such a situation the single country then has the option to either resolve their internal conflict or to leave the union.

This has nothing to do with over-centralized government or the Trump administration, it's simply the reason why the EU exists in the first place.

The UK already has a special position within that EU, amplified by virtue of being an island. The illusion that the UK can 'go it alone' is still very strong but I suspect that when the rubber meets the road there will be some pretty harsh and quick realizations that the promised utopia is not going to arrive. The brunt of the impact will land squarely in the demographic that voted 'brexit' so at least there is some justice but it will also be felt elsewhere in the country.

The UK's days as an independent world power were counted in the 60's. Being part of the EU was good for the UK and good for the EU. A UK that will be further diminished when and if the Scots leave the union.

All in all this is a very bad decision made by the UK and the UK alone, to ask the EU to put their founding principles on hold for the UK was going to have a very predictable outcome.

The irony of all this is that now the UK will go into a very uncertain phase the best exit of which is to rejoin the EU at a later date, but then it will be without any privileged position, likely without their own coin and likely with a much worse negotiation position than they had so far.

Please do not point your finger at the EU about this debacle, it belongs solely to the UK and specifically to BJ, Farage et al. If you wish to apportion blame they should be your primary targets, and May you secondary for going further down a road that need not be taken at all.

Re: Brexit's Tech Brain Drain

#130

Post by samsonradu »

barrkel wrote: post #110
djmobley wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although this particular instance is distasteful, as a general rule do you not think individuals should be free to choose who to rent their properties to? What's the alternative; forcing him to accept tenants he doesn't want?

Next thing you'll be criticising laws against employer discrimination. If someone wants an all white company, what's wrong with that? You want to force employers to hire people they don't want?

Not sure if your analogy is correct. If someone wants an all white company is discrimination. But if someone wants swedish speaking people and they all happen to be white it's no longer a problem.

Same with the tenants. I might prefer to rent my property to a woman because she takes care of the place better and is less likely to throw a party. Is that a discrimination?

Point is if there's an objective reason behind it then it's hard to consider it discrimination, even if it segments the groups on race/gender/religion.

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