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Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

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Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#121

Post by dkersten »

PaulHoule wrote: post #10
jgalt212 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The raise will dilute earnings for common shareholders, so definitely a downward force on stock price. That being said, this investment and the recent raise you alluded to should clobber the put skew. http://www.volcube.com/resources/options-articles/what-is-op...

One of life's little mysteries is that you almost always lose money if you invest internationally. A friend of mine says it is because the locals know what is going on better than you do. Tencent was a major investor in Magic Leap and the Saudi Sovereign Fund invested heavily in .coms in early 2000. It is definitely not a sell signal, but I would not buy what Tencent is buying.

"I would not buy what Tencent is buying."

Tencent own a lot of stock in (international) companies that are doing well too. For example, Riot Games, Epic Games and Snapchat.

Similar things can be said about Alibaba.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#122

Post by yeukhon »

tzakrajs wrote: post #32
yeukhon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not following. Who are the new generation of ambitious entrepreneurs?

I guess Elon? He's no spring chicken, but certainly ambitious and an entrepreneur.

Okay, but that's kind of an unfair comparison since Facebook, Google are corporations. Elon is a person. But if the point is tech founders should actively invest on their own outside of their company, okay that's fair. I am not sure how often Jack Ma, Mark Zuckerberg or Jeff Bezos invest in for-profit companies outside of their company's investment arm, but I think they do.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#123

Post by ww520 »

smaili wrote: post #3

> Tencent is a prolific investor. It holds equity in Snap, this year’s hot tech IPO, among others following an early investment. While that interest in messaging makes sense since Tencent’s operates China’s dominant chat app — WeChat — it isn’t immediately clear whether the Tesla investment has strategic undertones. This was my immediate question as well. Is this purely an investment for its portfolio or is there a s…

Tencent Holdings is more of an investment/VC company. WeChat is just one of its subsidiaries it funded that became wildly successful. Its primary focus is still investment in technologies. Pretty sure it can find some synergy with Tesla among its wide reach of portfolio. Does it hold solar related companies?

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#125

Post by hkmurakami »

smaili wrote: post #3

> Tencent is a prolific investor. It holds equity in Snap, this year’s hot tech IPO, among others following an early investment. While that interest in messaging makes sense since Tencent’s operates China’s dominant chat app — WeChat — it isn’t immediately clear whether the Tesla investment has strategic undertones. This was my immediate question as well. Is this purely an investment for its portfolio or is there a s…

Their strategy is reminiscent of Softbank's.

There may be some synergystic stuff from time to time (ex: Yahoo! Japan), but most of the time it's a pure investment move to amp up their returns.

Berkshire plows the cash flow from their insurance business into acquiring businesses (though they get a controlling stake), Softbank plows its telecom cash flow into speculative VC bets, and Tencent seems to be plowing its own revenue into VC bets as well.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#126

Post by clock_tower »

GCA10 wrote: post #57
Blackthorn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every budding short seller needs to, at some point in their career, learn the lesson of never shorting a growth tech stock.

Yes. Short-selling pioneer Bob Wilson nailed the key insight on these situations. They are "manana stocks," Wilson declared, way back in the 1970s. Their valuation is premised on the notion that something wonderful will happen in the future. Time horizons keep being pushed out, but the stocks' fans don't mind. Shorts can get very cranky and righteous about each little bit of slippage. But as long as new enthusiasts k…

Best case: you're shorting Sun Microsystems at the beginning of 2000, and it goes from $300/share to $3/share in the next 3 years. (http://www.1stock1.com/1stock1_211.htm)

My advice is to just not touch tech stocks; going short on them is just as dangerous as going long.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#127

Post by Ericson2314 »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #111
Afforess wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why you should purchase put options instead of short selling. Exposure to short selling is theoretically infinite. Exposure to put options is just the price you paid for the option. Shorting generally should only be for companies whose solvency is in doubt.

I wish people could buy something like an "implied short", which would basically be an index minus Tesla .

In general, I wish there were safer ways to short.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#128

Post by paganel »

mikeash wrote: post #118
timr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the reason GM "doesn't care" about the Volt (I'm exaggerating here; they obviously care a little bit ) is because they're rational: electric cars are not popular with mass-market consumers, and it's far from clear that they're going to become popular. GM is investing in what sells, and right now (i.e. for the last decade or two), that's SUVs and light trucks. Which doesn't bode well for Tesla, at least in t…

EVs are unpopular because cheap ones aren't very good yet. You have to choose between almost unusably short range, or a very high price. Something like the LEAF is affordable, but only useful as a city car. A Model S is a great car, but extremely expensive. The cost is coming down. Chevy is now selling the Bolt, which has pretty good range, for under $40,000. Tesla's Model 3 is coming soon. More will follow. The high…

I've had the exact same discussion with somebody else today on /r/futurology, more exactly I told him that "under $40,000" it's still pretty damn expensive for a small hatchback. My 1.4l European small hatchback costs around 13,000 euros new, you just can't expect people to not take into consideration the huge difference between the 2 prices.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#129

Post by caminante »

vvanders wrote: post #113
timr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the reason GM "doesn't care" about the Volt (I'm exaggerating here; they obviously care a little bit ) is because they're rational: electric cars are not popular with mass-market consumers, and it's far from clear that they're going to become popular. GM is investing in what sells, and right now (i.e. for the last decade or two), that's SUVs and light trucks. Which doesn't bode well for Tesla, at least in t…

You're getting downvoted because you missed the argument that I presented. It's not about what market segment that sells, it's that dealers have no incentives to sell electric vehicles since there's no margin on services and maintenance.

(Assuming non-material edits by the parent,) IMHO, he didn't miss your argument.

The topic's GM and GM dealerships. You said GM has to fight the GM dealerships due to conflicting interests, whereas, he's saying GM and the GM dealerships don't want "non" mass-markets customers to begin with (i.e. no conflict).

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#130

Post by cmrdporcupine »

radix07 wrote: post #107
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a small minority market, but I'd love an electric replacement for my 30hp diesel small compact utility tractor. It's a natural fit. The extra weight is a positive not a negative. The tractor is already a hydrostatic transmission in order to get continuous torque across RPMs and some in this market already use an electric motor for hydraulics (powered from a generator via the engine). It's only used for short burs…

It is coming soon! Here is a Hybrid ZTR prototype my company has been working on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J34KU9OG9M8

That's nice and I would even consider buying one, but it's not a tractor.

Need three point hitch, loader, PTO, and industrial tires.

When you (or someone else) makes one with equivalence to about 30 or 40hp for under $30k and, I will instantly buy it.

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