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Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

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Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#121
post #111

The issue here is that it's very, very difficult to figure out if someone can code, at all, from a resume. You might have a masters in CS and still be hopeless when it comes to actually writing even very simple things. You'd be surprised at how often that is the case... So, when I hire, I do so through through connections. I ask friends "Do you know anyone who can actually code who is looking for a job?" And if it's…

I once interviewed a candidate who claimed to have a PhD from a US university. He was applying to be an architect of DevOps. He didn't get through my interview and I only have my Bachelor since 2014.

As usual, the night before the interview I printed out his resume and the resume was about 5 pages long. I was not too happy about long resume, especially I spotted inconsistent formatting issue there. That's sloppy. Later my manager said this could have been a mod version from the talent recruitment agency. I got on the E train and I kept shaking my head during my whole ride. This resume looked suspiciously fake and bad. 90% of the technology this candidate claimed to have experience with show up in pretty much all of his prior roles. How can Cassandra appear in a role in 2003? Facebook wasn't even a thing. That was just of the several lies I caught immediately.

But I am a fair interviewer. I wanted to discount this resume and I wanted to see his real time performance. I always ask my candidate at least one system design problem because system design question usually can tell me the depth of knowledge the candidate has. I don't know my algorithms very well, but I know a lot about how to piece systems together. I know how to draw diagrams and show people my thoughts. I want people who can talk, especially in an architect role; I don't want just a code monkey. I like to spend more time with candidates even if my manager thinks we are done I usually request extra time so I can squeeze every bit of his/her knowledge.

So I asked him the same question I was asked to answer during my interview with our SVP. This candidate went speechless despite my multiple attempts to rephrase the questions and multiple hints. The question is as simple as given a SQL database and multiple data files (of some format which we don't care), we want to prevent duplicate record. This question is awesome because you can load the files in single-threaded program, in multi-threaded, or distributed. Design a system which can satisfy all three conditions are common (it's essentially evolution of a system - you start with the most basic single process single machine processing all files sequentially, and then perhaps going fully distributed like launching EMR or multiple worker nodes, or using S3 events and lambda function if we move the files to S3). If queue wasn't available, we can do checksum and lock file. Not perfect solution; we can trade time with integrity and accuracy.

Anyway, he failed the interview. I never bothered to check on his credentials but if he did graduate with a PhD, I am disappointed.

My 2 cents to all the juniors looking for job: please do not lie on your resume. Be concise and list what you actually know. If you did some C programming but you do not use C or no longer familiar with C, please do not put C on the resume. Rate your familiarity with tools, only list the ones you have good grip on. If you don't really know how to answer a question (e.g. do you know what content security policy is?) you can say "I don't know" and then ask the interview if he/she can give you a brief overview of what CSP is, and see if you can bring up related web security topics. But if you are just unsure or can't remember everything about CSP, start with "I don't quite remember, but I learned about CSP when I blah blah blah and I remember blah blah" that sort of response will get you somewhere, at least you are talking. Talk. Don't sit there and remain speechless.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#122
post #118

Whenever this subject comes up, predictably the answer here is always Blah blah blah network network network. For a demographic always looking for the scalable solution to a problem, HN seems pretty attached to the least scalable option. The numbers just don't make sense to me. Let's generously assume that you meet and have excellent working relationships with 100 people at each of the 4 jobs you've had. Of those 400…

Dunno- I got my current job through exactly one connection. I wasn't even sure I wanted a job, at the time, but he kept pestering me to come in and interview, and eventually I did. I'm not unhappy about it- it's nice to have a paycheck. But I think your math is off.

It is off because it assumes :

- you need powerful people

- you need to know people well

- you need to know them IRL

- you need to know them if they know you

- one person can only help you get a job at one place

- the person must be in your line of work

However my experience has been rather:

- anybody has the potential to bring you an opportunity. They have friends, family and colleagues, and they talk. My first internship was from the cousin of a friend of my mother needing somebody. 3 layers of indirection.

- superficial relationships (met once in a meetup, sport club, whatever) do carry opportunity. When people are looking for a worker, they prefer somebody they know, but will rarely find it and settle for anybody they can assess.

- IRC channels, forum and social networks are all doors to get jobs. Even MMORPG, MOBA or RTS. Actually they are filled with geeks, they all work in companies having some need for a recruitment or the other. And they are having fun with you.

- Even if you don't know somebody, if the person knows your work, it's a start. Github is a great personal showcase. I personally don't send my resume first, but my link to my stackoverflow account because it's quite famous in the Python community.

- people can talk about you to somebody working at another company who heard someone needed somebody, etc. Actually it often works that way: informal networking is the way humans connect the best. This is something I learned in Africa where it's the way of life, it's a lost art in our countries, were we do it reluctantly if we have no way around it.

- I'm currently working for a transport facility. Because my flat mate, not an IT person at all, works for one of their contractor, and he knows the project manager for one stuff where they needed something to be coded and he hooked us up. How ? We played laser tag 2 years ago, and so they know me and we just had diner to seal the deal. It's that stupid. And it worked. I delivered the software and they were happy.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#123
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. The sooner you build a network and put yourself in a position to not have to apply to jobs the better.

How do you "build a network" at companies you have never worked before, and you have no contacts at? You start adding them to your linkedin and then spamming them with messages saying "please be my friend"? I am asking because I heard this recommendation (build a network) all the time, but it is really really difficult to do, more so if you consider the number of companies where one can apply...

Are there programming meetups where you live? If there aren't you need to move. If there are you need to go to every one. If you have something interesting to say you ought to volunteer to give a talk (I just gave one on Redux, despite the fact that I have a job.)

If you have nothing interesting to say you ought to find something- if you're unemployed you must have a lot of time on your hands.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#125
post #116
post #111

The issue here is that it's very, very difficult to figure out if someone can code, at all, from a resume. You might have a masters in CS and still be hopeless when it comes to actually writing even very simple things. You'd be surprised at how often that is the case... So, when I hire, I do so through through connections. I ask friends "Do you know anyone who can actually code who is looking for a job?" And if it's…

Sounds like you waste a lot of people's time to lie to higher-ups.

Yep- don't hate the player, hate the game. I'm legally obligated to do so in some cases. That's what fiduciary means.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#126
post #113

I'm more and more convinced that being a cog in some corporate machine is coming to an end. We've collectively refined corporate processes to the point that it no longer requires human ingenuity or creativity. This has all happened under the guise of making things more efficient so that a stock ticker will be less volatile and will consistently move up and to the right. The candidate tracking software that this artic…

While math can be used to optimize some function(s) (for "societal optimization"), math is silent about the question of what to optimize. There's no general agreement about that. (For example, should there be regulations to reduce river pollution?)

Sure but what do you trust more, a properly designed control system with various safeguards to allow for the right amount of river pollution, or politicians arguing about which of their buddies should get the rights to polluting that river the most?

In the future I imagine your question about the river pollution is almost nonsensical. That is if we manage to actually get there. Going by current news about the future of earth's ecology we might not actually make it much further. Gotta admit though heroic human optimizations seemed like they got us pretty far but the lag time in reacting to things is a bit too long when humans are in the loop. So the sooner they are out of that critical loop the better.

Speaking of which: http://www.sciencealert.com/photos-reveal-more-than-200-brig...

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#127
post #44
post #3

In my job search, I've been surprised by how often you submit a resume online, and then you don't even get a rejection email. It's a true "black hole" in that you never hear back, not even with a "no thanks". I think it's disrespectful of candidates to ask them to spend time filling out an application, and then leave them hanging because you're (presumably) too lazy to read it.

I very much agree. A few years ago I was searching for a new job and there was this one place specifically that had an opening that sounded like a perfect fit for my skill set. They had an extremely long application process that involved "Pre-Employment Testing" (something called Criteria?). Anyway, I spent hours working on this application only to never hear back. Funny enough, after landing an even better gig, I ra…

Yeah, seriously, don't do that, unless you enjoy it. Almost certainly a waste of time.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#128
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please suggest your solution... This is completely unfair. GP is not an HR professional by any indication. If your accountant says your website looks ugly, do you hire them as your designer?

It's also unfair to criticize things as broken if no reasonable alternative exists. Should people get hate mail or get called "lazy" for failing to solve all of the world's problems?

Probably not. But, in practice, yes.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#129

Whenever this subject comes up, predictably the answer here is always Blah blah blah network network network. For a demographic always looking for the scalable solution to a problem, HN seems pretty attached to the least scalable option. The numbers just don't make sense to me. Let's generously assume that you meet and have excellent working relationships with 100 people at each of the 4 jobs you've had. Of those 400…

Another article on the topic yesterday:https://www.fastcompany.com/3069166/i-built-a-bot-to-apply-t...

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#130
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. The sooner you build a network and put yourself in a position to not have to apply to jobs the better.

How do you "build a network" at companies you have never worked before, and you have no contacts at? You start adding them to your linkedin and then spamming them with messages saying "please be my friend"? I am asking because I heard this recommendation (build a network) all the time, but it is really really difficult to do, more so if you consider the number of companies where one can apply...

You don't build a network at a company. You build a network in an area, perhaps more than one. You can be a complete idiot and still be well-known among local programmers (some of whom might not realize that you're dumb, and might hire you.) Imagine how far you might go if you're not dumb.
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