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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#121

Post by emodendroket »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #103
emodendroket wrote: post #3

While planned obsolescence is probably a factor I'd also consider the desire for more complicated features, efficiency requirements, and high (upfront) price sensitivity on the part of consumers. To the last point in particular I think you will find that a refrigerator was way more expensive in real dollars in 1950.

OMG, the "features". My stove is relatively simple except for 1 part, the one that sets the oven temperature (and the time, but who the hell needs a third clock in their kitchen). That part is a 300 dollar, proprietary circuit board. Of course it's the first thing to go. I'm sure the board doesn't cost the maker anywhere near $300 but I'm sure it's a lot more than an industry standard knob. If they want to cut a few…

I don't know about that particular example, but refrigerators with ice makers are an obvious case of people buying appliances way more likely to break down.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#122

Post by torgoguys »

ta4567 wrote: post #16

I’ve bought and sold refrigerators and freezers from the 1950’s that still work perfectly fine. I’ve come across washers and dryers from the 1960’s and 1970’s that were still working like the day they were made. Isn't there an element of survivorship bias to these statements? What about all the 1950's fridges that didn't last until today?

> Isn't there an element of survivorship bias to these statements? What about all the 1950's fridges that didn't last until today?

Right. If fridges made in the 50s routinely lasted 50 years I should have seen lots of 50s style models growing up. I didn't. Anecdotal, so take it FWIW.

He may have good points about declining quality, but I suspect it is demonstrably true that such appliances didn't typically last 50 years. In fact, it is the rarity of seeing such old appliances that make people really pay attention when they see one.

Perhaps also of interest, Consumer Reports regularly reports that modern cars are much MORE reliable than cars of old. (They have lots of data on the issue.) This despite being much more complicated machines than they used to be.

Another anecdote. Watching an 80s TV show with my not-yet-tween daughter, we came upon a part where a character hopped in a car and found it turned over but wouldn't start. My daughter asked me why it wouldn't start. She has to this point in life never seen a car not start! That was a weird thought to me, someone growing up in the 80s. (My daughter has heard of dead batteries possibly being a problem with cars from time to time).

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#123

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

j3097736 wrote: post #79
PuffinBlue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer. Maybe in the past they were great (my MIL has a 20 years old washing machine that's going great) but not the new stuff. Both my washer and dryer failed within 2 months of each other after 6 years. The dryers main board failed and price to repair was nearly £350 just for the part. The washers pump and some kind of water sensor failed simultaneously, leading to…

How new? 14 yo Miele washer never had an issue. >no filter cleaning for first 5 years! That's pretty disgusting for something you use to eat.

It's one of the dumber features of the Euro dishwashers. All you need is a good macerator and no worries with periodic maintenance chores.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#124

Post by SeanDav »

On a related note, I accidentally cracked the touch screen of my 8 year old Ford Radio/AC control unit. Cost to replace 4,500 GBP, which is more than the entire value of the car currently. Insane, because it basically means if you crack the touch screen, you have to scrap the car, if you want to claim via insurance.

Managed to get it replaced with a second hand one for £300, including labour.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#125

Post by 15thandwhatever »

lobster_johnson wrote: post #80
PuffinBlue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer. Maybe in the past they were great (my MIL has a 20 years old washing machine that's going great) but not the new stuff. Both my washer and dryer failed within 2 months of each other after 6 years. The dryers main board failed and price to repair was nearly £350 just for the part. The washers pump and some kind of water sensor failed simultaneously, leading to…

Are we ready to dismiss an entire brand because of one anecdote? All appliances fail at some point. We can't make a judgement based on a single data point. Reading about this stuff also makes me sad that the rest of the world have such weak consumer protections. In Norway, sellers are obligated to provide 5 years of warranty by law, and the consumer has certain rights such as the right to get a replacement if the pro…

The other thing that's discounted here is how people treat their products they've purchased.

I'm not saying that's the sole cause, but it surely doesn't help when filters aren't cleaned, things aren't replaced at their regular intervals, and other standard maintenance isn't done.

I'm comfortable with buying a used car given the maintenance paperwork and/or maintenance-related receipts are provided. But that's about it.

I'll probably never buy any used household appliance related to hygiene or food consumption -- washing machines, dishwashers, or even a microwave.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#126

Post by emodendroket »

pcurve wrote: post #113
theamk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a much simpler explanation: people want to buy cheap stuff. If given a choice between $1200 appliance which lasts 25 years, and $1000 appliance which last 15 years, and no infomation about the actual lifetimes, most people would choose the cheaper model. The people feel good, the sales rise, and who cares what happens in 15 years -- the company will have different execs by that time. And once people get used…

I think the problem is more complex. It's not that people 'want' to buy cheap stuff. That's the mistake PC laptop makers made for 20 years, collective racing to the bottom until they figured out ways to produce $300 laptop. But they eventually learned that a large consumer base had no problem paying $1200 for a MacBook. It turns out, people were willing to pay substantially more for a better product. Now, PC makers a…

It's not like $300 models went away.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#127

Post by khedoros1 »

prodmerc wrote: post #46
PuffinBlue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer. Maybe in the past they were great (my MIL has a 20 years old washing machine that's going great) but not the new stuff. Both my washer and dryer failed within 2 months of each other after 6 years. The dryers main board failed and price to repair was nearly £350 just for the part. The washers pump and some kind of water sensor failed simultaneously, leading to…

Well, the rate of failure is the lowest compared to other manufacturers. And those repairs are way too expensive I should say. White Knight dryers are surprisingly good, yeah. The LG washers work fine for 3-5 years, their weakest point is the suspension (really hard to replace) and the drum bearings/spider (irreplaceable), especially if you overload them.

I've got an LG direct drive. The bearings failed after about 6 years. The repair ended up being about $250(US). They replaced the stator, rotor, drum, and bearings (essentially all the moving parts of the appliance).

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#128

Post by mruniverse »

jdonaldson wrote: post #35

Look for a brand called "Speed Queen". They generally make commercial washers, but have a few home units they sell as well. They're all built like tanks, and some still have old mechanical controls. I have a mechanical set, and love it. https://youtu.be/O8L9PIjYngk

Yep. Bought the washer and dryer and they are nice. Went with the electronic controls though. And also top loading washer to avoid moisture/mold issues if door left closed.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#129

Post by emodendroket »

MichaelBurge wrote: post #70
tomlock wrote: post #48

Isn't this largely driven by consumer demand? The prices of appliances has dropped dramatically in the last few decades. Building a long-lasting appliance often requires even marginally more expensive materials - many of which are highlighted in this article. If consumers are primarily price sensitive at the time of purchase, they may choose the $50 cheaper appliance even if it lasts 40 years less. What I mean to sug…

Around 40%[1] of the population rents, which means 40% doesn't make the purchasing decision for many appliances. We can sanity-check your argument with this: That reasoning should predict no change in the quality of commercial appliances used in apartment complexes and laundromats, since these customers are used to making spreadsheets with a capital expenditures budget that they pay into for 30 years. [1] http://www.…

Have you never rented or something? Landlords don't expect tenants to take care of the appliances and buy the cheapest crap out there.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#130

Post by jonknee »

iopuy wrote: post #28

I have a theory that this is also being done with cars sold specifically in the United States. I spent some time abroad in South America a few years ago and I'm convinced our crappy cars wouldn't hold up a year driving on the unpaved roads and rocky desert terrain the resident's down there are used to. Meanwhile, my Argentine friend's 1980s Peugeot, missing electric windows and cd player had been on the road there fo…

> The Toyota Hilux isn't available here. They claim the Tacoma is the same truck just engineered for American emission's standards. I'm not buying it.

The Tacoma is a pretty sturdy truck, you see lots of older ones running around along with legions of Taco fans. They aren't available with a diesel engine like the Hilux, but the Hilux diesel wouldn't work in the US because of emissions and not being for ultra-low-sulfur diesel.

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