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Nevertheless, She Coded

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Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#121

Post by 234dd57d2c8dba »

KirinDave wrote: post #107
prepend wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all self-reported and not-representative data. So while an interesting story, is not evidence of a pay gap. There should be a statistical paper with a proper analysis somewhere, I'll try looking for it.

It's not proof of a pay gap, but it's evidence of a pay gap. Loads of other evidence of a pay gap is trivially available. I won't entertain the ignorance articulated here on that. You can Google. But I will add an aside that is less obvious. It's entirely possible to have perfectly even pay between every member of your team and still have an overall pay gap if you don't have good diversity in the upper levels of your…

No, it's actually not evidence of a pay gap. The study is flawed because it doesn't control for number of hours worked for men and women. It is well known that men work more hours, which would explain why "men get paid more". The study you linked is not wages per hour worked, it's just wages.

The fact that this myth just keeps getting perpetuated by people is ridiculous. If companies could get away with hiring women for less money, why the heck would they ever conspire against women to hire less women!!!

Get the same and/or high quality work from women for a cheaper price or conspire to not hire any women because I hate women I guess? - Pick One.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#122

Post by ruleabidinguser »

cmiles74 wrote: post #120
ruleabidinguser wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you see it as a historical truth this is something that is patently false in my daily life. Sorry I don't substitute historical truth for modern truth! I don't deny the existence of sexism.

I think that is a good thing. Still, it is likely that your experience might fall in the "anecdote" category. It is a big country!

Certainly possible. Another issue I have is that I regularly see good responses to these sorts of studies linked above pointing out valid flaws and yet none-the-less I'm expected to take this issue seriously. I just don't view it as a legitimate issue, not that I'm unwilling to.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#124

Post by bhalp1 »

phlakaton wrote: post #104

If ever I had a notion that an expression of solidarity for women in tech was unnecessary or quixotic, the response to this article on this very forum would be sufficient to dispel it.

As the creator of https://dev.to and the co-author of this article, I concur mightily.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#125

Post by Rusky »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #102
ubernostrum wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PSA: at this point, making comments complaining about "virtue signalling" is virtue signalling. And I suggest investing in new talking points -- "this is just as (insert -ism) as what they're fighting against" has been retired.

So if A are fighting against B on behalf of C, but are doing B to D, we're supposed to just keep silent because you say that "talking point" has been "retired"? I don't think so...

I suspect the claim is that the talking point is retired because it's false.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#126

Post by prepend »

panglott wrote: post #60
prepend wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those were secretarial jobs and not equivalent to today's computer programmers, like Ada Lovelace.

Those were secretarial jobs because the men designing the hardware thought that was the hard stuff, and that designing software was basically secretarial work. When they discovered that designing software was hard, they forced the women out. http://gender.stanford.edu/news/2011/researcher-reveals-how-...

No, it's because back then programming was largely secretarial and clerical and involved many manual tasks repeated over and over to set up the programs. It was very different from what is done today.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#127

Post by Mz »

phlakaton wrote: post #104

If ever I had a notion that an expression of solidarity for women in tech was unnecessary or quixotic, the response to this article on this very forum would be sufficient to dispel it.

HN has actually improved dramatically in recent years. There used to be no one like you speaking up in support. And, yet, it took me a long time to see the sexism here because it was already so much more civil than other places I had known.

(In case you are unaware, I appear to be the highest ranked openly female member here. I strongly suspect I really am because I have been saying that for a couple of years or so and no one has shot me down yet with "Nope!!! THIS member is openly female AND on the leaderboard, you dumbass!!!!!")

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#128

Post by ruleabidinguser »

smt88 wrote: post #118
ruleabidinguser wrote: post #110

Also because the issue essentially doesnt exist. A victim complex is a real thing and there are real victims. You must acknowledge both, not just the latter (or just the former for that matter.) Sexism is real but severely overblown in my experience.

Is your experience that of a woman? If not, you really have no idea whether it's overblown or not.

So I'm barred from having an opinion because I'm not a woman? Perhaps rather than my "experience" I should have said "real life observations." Regardless, so be it, but don't expect my support if you ever end up wanting it.

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#129

Post by CryoLogic »

Pigo wrote: post #4

"continued pay disparity" here we go...

I studied economics in college, and worked with a professor who was researching the "pay gap".

We found that adjusting for a number of factors (profession, experience, education, etc.) the pay gap actually closes significantly.

That isn't to say some companies don't have pay gap, but it is largely overblown and often dissimilar pay is a result of other factors.

tl;dr 70 cents on the dollar is not a real thing when you use your data correctly (at least in USA).

Re: Nevertheless, She Coded

#130

Post by HiResSleep »

People who forward the feminist narrative always insist that they are interested in having a "conversation", but this is a lie, as evidenced by this statement.

Agreement with my position proves my position. Disagreement with my position proves my position.

You're not interested in speaking with people who disagree with you. A dialogue you want not. You wish to have a monologue, where you are the teacher and anyone who doesn't think like you is the pupil, who knows his place, sits down, shuts up, and listens.

You are a bigot in the purest definition of the word.

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