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Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

hydrogen-music.org

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Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#121

Post by davidgerard »

jameskegel wrote: post #49
trickell wrote: post #11

Check out LMMS (Let's Make Music). It's like Ableton for Linux and already has VST's like Hydrogen, etc. built into the software itself: https://lmms.io/

It's actually like FL Studio for Linux as it is pretty much a carbon copy. If you want to draw a direct comparison of "Ableton for Linux" then the logical choice is Bitwig, which is quite frankly "Ableton for Linux" since all of the original Ableton developers left to start Bitwig and the interface is a 100% copy of the original.

Do you know anything on the story of Bitwig vs Ableton? (Google gives me lots of feature comparisons, but not the story.)

edit: http://djtechtools.com/2012/01/12/bitwig-studio-announced-ab...

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#122

Post by davidgerard »

Tenoke wrote: post #64
trickell wrote: post #11

Check out LMMS (Let's Make Music). It's like Ableton for Linux and already has VST's like Hydrogen, etc. built into the software itself: https://lmms.io/

I like LMMS but the funny thing about it is that some of the essential features (such as extrrnal VSTs) don't work on Linux (unless you set it up on wine, which has it's own issues).

I used LMMS for Windows in Wine for ages. Now using on Ubuntu 16.04 compiled from source linking to libwine. Works fine, I'm not at all clear on what bit of Linux use is supposed to be hard.

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#123

Post by baldfat »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #94
baldfat wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we will disagree 100% I don't think we are talking the same thing. BUT latency (aka delay) in audio recording is a HUGE deal. When someone is playing to a click track and previous recorded pieces and have that person perform with that delay makes it even worse. It's impact on the ability for the drummer to perform has made it default to record drums first. The difference between on beat, before beat or after bea…

> BUT latency (aka delay) in audio recording is a HUGE deal. When someone is playing to a click track and previous recorded pieces and have that person perform with that delay makes it even worse. Please dude, look up latency compensation. You have zero idea what you're talking about and it's obvious. > In actual Professional world there are plenty of Windows based studios that won Emmy's, Oscars and Grammys. I don't…

I owned my own Recording Studio and still do work for time to time as a sub-contrator. If you in your smug dialog think that adding a delay to different tracks and syncing them down to the bits is the issue I am sorry but you miss 100% of the point and you didn't read the link that I tried to show what I am talking about.

> I don't believe I ever said otherwise. But to say Mac never outperforms Windows for audio is wrong. And to say Mac requires just as much setup work as Windows is a flat out lie.

Nope. Its actually a huge pain BUT most people don't really care or need to actually dig that deep.

https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/210...

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207546515-Op...

Then you have the issue with your i/o in Macs with all your Desktop options that isn't a problem but all the laptops its a HUGE problem. I have no idea how people do audio with the i/o issues that Apple throw at you all the time. Thunderbolt anyone?

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#124

Post by baldfat »

eropple wrote: post #105
imhelpingu wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part I don't understand: If you have a known constant output lag, a known constant input lag, but no lag in the monitor for just the track you're recording, it seems like the software has everything it needs to put back the performance exactly the way you recorded it (and to adjust the offset for the click). Am I missing something?

You are not.

Okay you have reverb or chorus or anything else you must have the mix wet. If you don't you are throwing everything off. Once again if you are not recording multi-track it really doesn't matter that much. If you throwing multiple of tracks and multiple of recordings its a HUGE issue that just manually or automatically delaying tracks won't fix. If "any modern DAW" could fix with a latency compensation then no one would be writing and working on latency for 20 years.

My point latency doesn't really matter for most people recording. BUT if you get in that realm where you need to worry about it then its a PAIN no matter what your OS is. Apple isn't "superior" in audio recording just like it isn't in video and image manipulation. OS is more about people's feeling and attachment to their OS's company's marketing.

I think Apple has been dishonest and hostile to people so I don't like them as a company. You can't trust them not to throw the rug out from under your feet (Thunderbolt cost studios thousands and thousands of dollars). Lack of a new Mac Pro also is a HUGE issue for most video shops now. Their OS drives me nuts and really unreliable for me. Other people love it and I am fine with your opinion until they think everything else is garbage.

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#125

Post by baldfat »

eropple wrote: post #106
squeaky-clean wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those links are either out of date or completely incorrect. None of this has ever been necessary for me on a Mac. Focusrite doesn't even offer Mac drivers for most of their products, as the support is built in, for example[0], so I don't know why it's advising you to update your drivers. [0] https://us.focusrite.com/downloads?product=Scarlett+2i4

Seriously. A friend brought over his 2i4 for a project and my Mac was able to plug-and-play with it at 5ms latency. That page is "dissuade people from calling tech support", not the reality of how audio actually works on OS X.

There is no way you have 5ms latency with a USB port. Your measuring it wrong. USB audio devices have built in buffers that add to your 5ms latency.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-which-audio-inter...

yes its 2009 but it is still sound science.

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#127

Post by eropple »

eon1 wrote: post #112
eropple wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since Windows XP Windows and Audio Latency has not been an issue Core Audio literally-just-works with low latency and aggregated devices. DAWs on Windows still either use MME/DX for north of 50ms, often 100ms+ latency or ASIO (exclusive device usage and no aggregation, assuming your hardware even has ASIO drivers because ASIO4ALL is at best rickety) on Windows. I don't know what you think is going on with OS X, but…

> low latency and aggregated devices Hang on, no way, you take one or the other. Aggregating devices adds a huge chunk of latency and, frankly, I don't think is that exciting a feature anyway. Maybe for your specific setup, but generally speaking you should buy gear that suits your needs, rather than try to cobble something together from existing devices. Having used OSX and Win7 (on the same machine) I would agree C…

> Aggregating devices adds a huge chunk of latency

In the situations where I have to do it--and it's less about "buying the gear that suits my needs," more "having to bash together other people's gear on a shoestring"--I find that aggregation ends up around 30ms, which is on the higher end of acceptable when monitoring in-ear. (To be specific--this is not for music but rather audio routing for video. Occasionally I'm on-site somewhere and need to be able to monkey up something a little faster than I'd like, you know?)

Trying to do that with ASIO at all is impossible. So it's a pretty big deal.

> That said, I'm not sure what you think is going on with ASIO, since any class compliant USB audio interface has compatible drivers inherently..

In theory, yes. In practice, I find ASIO a little unstable (my home setup uses Ableton on Windows as a live mixer through a TASCAM US-16x08, though I'll be going back to using a Mac when I get back my Mac mini from a friend). I have never had Core Audio kernel panic a machine, but I've had machines (in one memorable case, the same machine dual-booting a hackintoshed OS X and Windows) hard-lock as soon as I enabled ASIO on two different devices (my old TASCAM US-1200 and my a friend's 8i6).

It is not unusable, by any means, but for my purposes (again, live shows) predictability is a big plus.

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#128

Post by akx »

eropple wrote: post #79
baldfat wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never in my life seen a Mac out perform a Window machine when it comes to latency and professional audio recording. When it comes to $100-$200 parts it comes to drivers and sometimes Mac wins and sometimes Windows wins. I have a bias that goes beyond Pro-Tools but Pro-Tools was a thing because Apple hardware was not capable of producing Professional level recording without spending thousands of dollars in thei…

> Since Windows XP Windows and Audio Latency has not been an issue Core Audio literally-just-works with low latency and aggregated devices. DAWs on Windows still either use MME/DX for north of 50ms, often 100ms+ latency or ASIO (exclusive device usage and no aggregation, assuming your hardware even has ASIO drivers because ASIO4ALL is at best rickety) on Windows. I don't know what you think is going on with OS X, but…

ASIO isn't always exclusive usage. My Focusrite Scarlett 2i2's own ASIO driver can run alongside other audio just fine.

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#130

Post by eon1 »

eropple wrote: post #127
eon1 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> low latency and aggregated devices Hang on, no way, you take one or the other. Aggregating devices adds a huge chunk of latency and, frankly, I don't think is that exciting a feature anyway. Maybe for your specific setup, but generally speaking you should buy gear that suits your needs, rather than try to cobble something together from existing devices. Having used OSX and Win7 (on the same machine) I would agree C…

> Aggregating devices adds a huge chunk of latency In the situations where I have to do it--and it's less about "buying the gear that suits my needs," more "having to bash together other people's gear on a shoestring"--I find that aggregation ends up around 30ms, which is on the higher end of acceptable when monitoring in-ear. (To be specific--this is not for music but rather audio routing for video. Occasionally I'm…

> I find that aggregation ends up around 30ms, which is on the higher end of acceptable when monitoring in-ear

I haven't done that kind of work, so for video/speech, fair enough. 30ms (on top of whatever's already there) is not really acceptable for a musical performance, though - the performer will be expending half their brainpower trying to mentally align what they hear through bone conduction vs in ear monitoring and adjusting their performance based on outdated/scrambled information. It's a really confusing experience - if you've ever seen that Japanese "speech jammer" device[0] you'll get some idea what I mean (although it uses much longer than ~30ms, that's still enough to mess with you).

Working in a pinch, it would make a useful and more stable tool than ASIO, though I run either analog or dedicated devices for any live work - I just don't trust computers that much - but I get that working with video means you might not have those kind of options. I can't say I've had many of the troubles I've heard about with ASIO to be honest, but I undeniably do enjoy working on OSX more anyway. This conversation reminds me how badly I need to revive my ML Hackintosh..

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USDI3wnTZZg

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