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Sexism at Uber from Female Management

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Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#121

Post by caminante »

thehardsphere wrote: post #47
hellcow wrote: post #12

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see anything that the manager is doing wrong. We can debate whether the manager is effective at her job, but it seems clear to me this is not an example of sexism. The only citation I can find relevant to the claim of sexism is that she was asked not to wear a tank-top to work. It may very well be that a tank-top is inappropriate attire at Uber's workplace. At IBM and many o…

Read a little more carefully. The problem here isn't really "sexism", it's that "Tina" has an insecure personality that feels threatened by the people on her team, and thus is marginalizing everyone on it who sticks out in an attempt to establish dominance. You're correct that a good manager could make a comment about a tank top being inappropriate attire at a given office. But note when Tina said this: it was when t…

Hellcow does understand the nuance you're raising.

Respectfully, I don't think this blog post would get play if it didn't have the female-on-female sexism angle.

The title's misleading: "Sexism at Uber from female management #UberStory"

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#122

Post by kafkaesq »

thehardsphere wrote: post #17

Is this what happens when a company gets too large too fast? I've only worked at small companies that would not be able to afford the waste generated by a manager like this Tina character. (Who has time for 6 hours of meetings?) I mean, I can imagine that characters like Tina existing in the world, hiring them, promoting them to management, and then learning that they have problems like this. It's hard to screen for…

Is this what happens when a company gets too large too fast?

Not exactly. You need a few more magic ingredients -- like a heavy dose of the standard "Move fast, break things (and rules, and people)" + "Valuations über alles" SV ethos (topped off with, a well, cringingly bro-ish name like "Uber" to begin with) to get to the exquisite place where Uber has come to find itself, thus far.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#123

Post by watwut »

whatever_dude wrote: post #35
omouse wrote: post #5

Surprise surprise, managers behave badly and it doesn't matter what their background is. Usually engineers have to go through rigorous interviews; maybe it's time that was stepped up for managers with better behavioural questions.

Unfortunately managers also tend to be a product of their environment. I've seen female managers/leads take extremely male-centric sexist positions on issues just because it's the way they've learned. In other words, they had become "one of the boys" and were expecting other women under them to do the same. I've come to assume it's especially true of Women on their 40s or so who have been in the tech industry for a w…

That does not excuse them just as it would not excuse males. It is important to hold women to the same standard even in this area. Moreover, some women are abusive even without males teaching them that.

Out of curiosity, what did you meant by male centric position?

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#124

Post by MichaelGG »

cholantesh wrote: post #45
hellcow wrote: post #12

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see anything that the manager is doing wrong. We can debate whether the manager is effective at her job, but it seems clear to me this is not an example of sexism. The only citation I can find relevant to the claim of sexism is that she was asked not to wear a tank-top to work. It may very well be that a tank-top is inappropriate attire at Uber's workplace. At IBM and many o…

She was told that her body was a distraction and should dress modestly to remedy this. That's sexism writ large.

Why is it sexism? Perhaps she was the only one with a distracting body? How do we know non-female workers didn't get a talking to for wearing certain clothing?

How do we know it's not jealousy or personal vendetta?

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#126

Post by misingnoglic »

burrows wrote: post #32

>> I know this is completely untrue because I wear this tank top almost every day and am close with him and members of his team (we eat lunch together and even go on the occasional run for ice cream). You wear the same shirt everyday?

Is this what you got from the article??

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#127

Post by st3v3r »

huffmsa wrote: post #93
Neliquat wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an easy way to drive away talent. Myself, and I feel, many others, would gladly take a similar job where the culture and dress were relaxed, instead of fixed. The fix is to hire socially competent people, and be clear to them when they are pushing it early and often.

"Naw man, I'm not going to work there because I _need_ my bedazzled dungarees to code well." Please.

Most other things being equal, and they usually are, I'm going to take the job with the more relaxed dress code.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#128

Post by nanodano »

cholantesh wrote: post #45
hellcow wrote: post #12

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see anything that the manager is doing wrong. We can debate whether the manager is effective at her job, but it seems clear to me this is not an example of sexism. The only citation I can find relevant to the claim of sexism is that she was asked not to wear a tank-top to work. It may very well be that a tank-top is inappropriate attire at Uber's workplace. At IBM and many o…

She was told that her body was a distraction and should dress modestly to remedy this. That's sexism writ large.

At what point is a manager allowed to tell an employee their clothing is inappropriate for work? What line must be crossed before that happens? Ever? Are they ever allowed to say "that outfit is inappropriate"?

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#129

Post by ceras »

huffmsa wrote: post #93
Neliquat wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an easy way to drive away talent. Myself, and I feel, many others, would gladly take a similar job where the culture and dress were relaxed, instead of fixed. The fix is to hire socially competent people, and be clear to them when they are pushing it early and often.

"Naw man, I'm not going to work there because I _need_ my bedazzled dungarees to code well." Please.

It wouldn't stop me from joining a company that's clearly better than the rest. But engineers have a lot of comparably good options in hub cities, so it's reasonable to be picky about small stuff - we can afford to be. A formal dress code does have real downsides: it (1) costs money, (2) wastes closet space (it's a premium in NYC!), and (3) makes biking to work or otherwise living a pre-/post-work active life more of a pain.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#130

Post by watwut »

bgun wrote: post #7
omouse wrote: post #5

Surprise surprise, managers behave badly and it doesn't matter what their background is. Usually engineers have to go through rigorous interviews; maybe it's time that was stepped up for managers with better behavioural questions.

Or stop promoting engineers to management roles they aren't educated for or socially prepared for.

There are plenty of engineers who ended up as a good managers. The problem is that management roles attracts people who seek control and power over others and can not get it otherwise. Some companies see the above as leadership material, promote them and crrate hell for everyone else.
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