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Airbnb is providing free housing to refugees and anyone not allowed in the US

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Re: Airbnb is providing free housing to refugees and anyone not allowed in the US

#121

All of the virtue signaling and moral feather preening surrounding this issue is something to behold. It seems we're entering a new era where businesses engage in political activism as well as simple commerce. If that's the case, it's only fair that other groups, whose politics may differ from the activist-businesses', start using politics to weaken those businesses and counter their influence. For example, it's well…

> All of the virtue signaling and moral feather preening surrounding this issue is something to behold.

Spare us the rhetoric, please. The only purpose it serves is to confirm your alienation.

Business mixing with activism is nothing new, although progressive businesses engaging in activism is. You'd do well to remember the recent fracas over churches and resorts choosing not to host gay weddings. That's conservative activism.

> Or perhaps the Republicans, though new federal liability laws, should render Airbnb's business model non-viable at the national level.

Such laws would be a stunning display of hypocrisy from a party that claims to be against federal interference in markets. It would also normalize (or continue the trend of normalizing) political punishment for companies that don't agree with the current administration's (non-legal) policies. Regardless of who's in power, that's not a good road to go down.

> The left has been engaging in total war against the right for about a decade.

I hear this sentiment often. While liberals (such as myself) have benefited in terms of visibility from the last 8 years, I see no signs of "total war" on my college campus or in my neighborhood back home. There is general agreement that conservative (and Trumpian) policies are categorically bad for all Americans, but this doesn't reflect a contempt for conservatives or Trump voters as people. More than anything, there's a feeling of bewilderment stemming from the conservative party's unconservative choice of candidate.

Edit: I realized that I forgot to add this in the last paragraph:

The idea of the left engaging in "total war" is discomforting for another reason - it doesn't accurately reflect the facts of this past election. Over the last 12 months, only one party selected a candidate who hasn't made any attempts at bipartisanship. Whether or not you agreed with HRC's policies (I didn't, on many occasions), she made a conspicuous effort to appeal to both liberals and conservatives. The more progressive contingent mocked her for this, but it's still a showing of good faith. No such good faith attempt was made by the Trump campaign.

It's worth noting, however, that Trump's campaign isn't really to blame for the aforementioned. He merely tapped into a talking point that the GOP has been brewing since the Watergate scandal - that the media can't be trusted, and that the party must be the source of facts. Combined with Gingrich's 1996 Contract With America and the reactionary appearance of the Tea Party in response to the Obama administration, the claim that it is the left that has waged war looks, at best, shaky.

Re: Airbnb is providing free housing to refugees and anyone not allowed in the US

#122

All of the virtue signaling and moral feather preening surrounding this issue is something to behold. It seems we're entering a new era where businesses engage in political activism as well as simple commerce. If that's the case, it's only fair that other groups, whose politics may differ from the activist-businesses', start using politics to weaken those businesses and counter their influence. For example, it's well…

> The left has been engaging in total war against the right for about a decade. Funny, I see it as almost the exact opposite. The backlash against Obama was a weaponization of politics on a scale not seen since the Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam War movements. I'd characterize the corporate response as businesses trying to operate in a cosmopolitan market, in a climate of nativist politics. And your viewpoint feels es…

> And is doubly ironic that you seem to be advocating that the government punish a private entity for stances that seem well within its rights.

It is ironic, I'll admit.

But in total war, there are no rules. You inflict suffering on your enemy by whatever means are available.

The left gleefully destroyed a family-run pizza joint because of the answer one of the family members gave to a reporter. They made an example of this family for the rest of the country to learn from: "Publicly express a political opinion we disagree with, and run the risk of being destroyed."

It's only fair that Ben Chesky and Airbnb incur a similar risk for their forays into the political arena. And they're very rich, powerful and well-connected people, who are backed by other rich, powerful and well-connected people. It would take something as powerful as a Republican-controlled federal government to do them some serious damage.

And if that happens, I'm certainly not to rush to their defense.

Re: Airbnb is providing free housing to refugees and anyone not allowed in the US

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The left has been engaging in total war against the right for about a decade. Funny, I see it as almost the exact opposite. The backlash against Obama was a weaponization of politics on a scale not seen since the Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam War movements. I'd characterize the corporate response as businesses trying to operate in a cosmopolitan market, in a climate of nativist politics. And your viewpoint feels es…

> And is doubly ironic that you seem to be advocating that the government punish a private entity for stances that seem well within its rights. It is ironic, I'll admit. But in total war, there are no rules. You inflict suffering on your enemy by whatever means are available. The left gleefully destroyed a family-run pizza joint because of the answer one of the family members gave to a reporter. They made an example…

The left gleefully destroyed a family-run pizza joint

Would you elaborate on this? What are you referring to?

Re: Airbnb is providing free housing to refugees and anyone not allowed in the US

#125
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You used a good quote, but you'd better talk about it's meaning and how exactly it contradicts what I was saying, because "protection of persons, liberties and properties" does include helping people not to die on the street (even for selfish interests of rich public that still makes sense) and it's unclear why you believe otherwise.

Since you like the quote allow me to continue from the same book "But when the law, by means of its necessary agent, force, imposes upon men a regulation of labor, a method or a subject of education, a religious faith or creed — then the law is no longer negative; it acts positively upon people. It substitutes the will of the legislator for their own wills; the initiative of the legislator for their own initiatives.…

There's no much sense to argue here with French liberal from the XIX century who fought against mercantilism. These views are obsolete and naive, simply because he was neither familiar with the governments and laws of XXI century, nor he knew about economics as much as we know today. It's also quite sad that a quote replaced personal opinion.

Re: Airbnb is providing free housing to refugees and anyone not allowed in the US

#126

All of the virtue signaling and moral feather preening surrounding this issue is something to behold. It seems we're entering a new era where businesses engage in political activism as well as simple commerce. If that's the case, it's only fair that other groups, whose politics may differ from the activist-businesses', start using politics to weaken those businesses and counter their influence. For example, it's well…

> The left has been engaging in total war against the right for about a decade. Funny, I see it as almost the exact opposite. The backlash against Obama was a weaponization of politics on a scale not seen since the Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam War movements. I'd characterize the corporate response as businesses trying to operate in a cosmopolitan market, in a climate of nativist politics. And your viewpoint feels es…

I don't know if we just interpreted the parent differently, but I don't follow your reasoning.

> The backlash against Obama was a weaponization of politics on a scale not seen since the Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam War movements.

Obama's a well-known politician. It would be pretty crazy to say we can't attack or protest our own government. I'd be interested in how you extracted this point from OP, because I completely missed it.

> And your viewpoint feels especially ironic when a common conservative/libertarian argument against government interventions to advance civil rights is that the market will work it out.

I also don't see the connection to government intervention. Businesses have the same rights as people to express their opinions, investors/owners willing. Obviously there's consequences to those actions, and certain SV startups are already on thin ice as far as their legal ability to operate is concerned. But it's up to the American constituency if they want to bring these issues to their representatives attention.

> And is doubly ironic that you seem to be advocating that the government punish a private entity for stances that seem well within its rights.

If a constituency doesn't like what a business is doing it is fully within the rights of the constituency to change to change the law. Despite the law, people tend to be really unsympathetic to wealthy businesses, and political lobbying law has been ripe to change for years.

Re: Airbnb is providing free housing to refugees and anyone not allowed in the US

#127
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And is doubly ironic that you seem to be advocating that the government punish a private entity for stances that seem well within its rights. It is ironic, I'll admit. But in total war, there are no rules. You inflict suffering on your enemy by whatever means are available. The left gleefully destroyed a family-run pizza joint because of the answer one of the family members gave to a reporter. They made an example…

The left gleefully destroyed a family-run pizza joint Would you elaborate on this? What are you referring to?

Memories Pizza. Google it.

Re: Airbnb is providing free housing to refugees and anyone not allowed in the US

#128
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The left gleefully destroyed a family-run pizza joint Would you elaborate on this? What are you referring to?

Memories Pizza. Google it.

Thanks! If you're going to bring up Memories Pizza, I think it's fair to compare this to Pizzagate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory

The idea that we have no further recourse other than total war is very troubling. I don't think a lot of people are willing to give up trying to work together quite yet.

Re: Airbnb is providing free housing to refugees and anyone not allowed in the US

#129
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you like the quote allow me to continue from the same book "But when the law, by means of its necessary agent, force, imposes upon men a regulation of labor, a method or a subject of education, a religious faith or creed — then the law is no longer negative; it acts positively upon people. It substitutes the will of the legislator for their own wills; the initiative of the legislator for their own initiatives.…

There's no much sense to argue here with French liberal from the XIX century who fought against mercantilism. These views are obsolete and naive, simply because he was neither familiar with the governments and laws of XXI century, nor he knew about economics as much as we know today. It's also quite sad that a quote replaced personal opinion.

Principles are timeless.

It is sad you ethics and morality have a experation date, and the quote did not replace my personal opinion as I agree 100% with the quote, that is why I quoted it.

One does not have to reinvent the wheel every time an idea needs to be rebutted, People use quotes as a shortcut to highlight their personal opinions many times in more articulate ways then they could themselves or simply to save time which is what I have done here.

i am not going to write out a 5000 word essay on the problems with government in a HN comment that about 3 people will read

Re: Airbnb is providing free housing to refugees and anyone not allowed in the US

#130

All of the virtue signaling and moral feather preening surrounding this issue is something to behold. It seems we're entering a new era where businesses engage in political activism as well as simple commerce. If that's the case, it's only fair that other groups, whose politics may differ from the activist-businesses', start using politics to weaken those businesses and counter their influence. For example, it's well…

> All of the virtue signaling and moral feather preening surrounding this issue is something to behold. Spare us the rhetoric, please. The only purpose it serves is to confirm your alienation. Business mixing with activism is nothing new, although progressive businesses engaging in activism is. You'd do well to remember the recent fracas over churches and resorts choosing not to host gay weddings. That's conservative…

Let's say I disagree with you vehemently on this. I actually don't have an opinion (for the purposes of this comment) but I think there is a point to be had here the OP is trying to get at that is very important.

You obviously were not in fear of career repercussions by posting your reply. I guarantee you that there are people reading your post now, who want to post a reasonable disagreement from the "conservative" viewpoint but will not because they are in (legitimate) fear of what negative affects it will have on their future employment.

That is what I read as the OPs comment. Decades of that adds up, and I certainly have noticed on HN and other industry meeting places you are allowed to express politics as long as it's that of the majority. You can explain this from the point of view of every actor in the process acting rationally in their own self interest - but it still creates a problem of defacto silencing political belief, and even more importantly only letting those radical (or rich) enough to not care about social acceptance join the conversations as a dissenting opinion.

That is troubling to me. When you only see one side feel free enough to take practical advantage of their right to free speech something is seriously wrong - and why I feel that the OP is far more correct in that this is more like war than political discourse at this point. I honestly don't know if you can walk it back, and the road that puts us on scares me.

As someone who is seen as "neutral" in the workplace, I have people from both sides dump on me in private. There is a lot more common ground than most think, but as long as people live in fear of having genuine honest political arguments I simply cannot see these trends turning around. My personal anecdote is that it's getting worse over time - not better.

Edit: spelling

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