China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network • Hacker News Board

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#121

Post by jcranmer » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 7:31 PM UTC

ak217 wrote: post #71

avar wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps a better photo to make your point: http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0229/c90000-9022441-11.html So it does seem like they're using tracks elevated by concrete pillars pretty widely, but are you sure your image shows a high-speed rail track? To my untrained eye that seems like a really aggressive curve radius for a high speed rail track. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_railway_curve_radius#L...

Yes, it's a high speed track. That's a Siemens ICE train (or a Chinese derivative thereof). A telephoto lens can create this visual effect of depth compression. I'm flabbergasted by people implying that there's a good excuse for why the Western nations can't build HSR the way China does. China has entire lines like this that don't touch the ground for dozens of miles at a time. These lines are out in the country conn…

Elevated track doesn't buy you anything over level track, at least in terms of landowner hostility. What makes you think that an easement for pillars is going to come any cheaper than an easement for continuous level track?

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#122

Post by otoburb » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 7:34 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #60

bluedino wrote: post #17

Whenever I hear talk of bullet trains coming to the US, I hear people say things like "Americans could easily build better trains than the Chinese." Then I remind people that they have 20,000km of track, 150 trains and how much operating experience? That's a huge head start.

Actually, that existing track is part of the problem, not the solution. A new high-speed train is much easier to justify economically when you're looking at (total benefit of high-speed rail) - (cost of high speed rail) than when you're looking at ((total benefit of high-speed rail) - (total benefit of current rail)) - ((cost of high-speed rail) + (cost of removing current rail if necessary)). There's a name for this…

Perhaps you're referring to the term "leapfrogging", the topic of which Kevin Kelly offers a differing viewpoint from the mainstream acceptance despite explaining this in 2006[1].

[1] http://kk.org/thetechnium/the-myth-of-lea/

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#123

Post by Markoff » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 7:34 PM UTC

as someone who lived better half of decade in China I don't find it that amazing

1. growth of HSR meant less and less slower trains = higher prices of tickets, less available to poorer people

2. prices of these train tickets are actually higher than LCC airways in Europe which will transport me much faster anywhere than HSR

3. buying ticket during peak periods is very difficult

4. train station procedures take probably more time than airport procedures (even within China, much longer compared to Schengen)

5. many of not most of the HSR stations are outside of the cities, so there is no benefit between reaching HSR station and airport

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#124

Post by Markoff » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 7:38 PM UTC

bainsfather wrote: post #2

"Less than a decade ago China had yet to connect any of its cities by bullet train. Today, it has 20,000km (12,500 miles) of high-speed rail lines, more than the rest of the world combined. It is planning to lay another 15,000km by 2025" The contrast to the UK, where we might someday build the HS2 line London-Birmingham-Manchester, is massive. I am left with a feeling of awe at China's development, and frustration at…

it's easy to grow from rock bottom

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#125

Post by NotUsingLinux » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 7:40 PM UTC

While I applaud the effort. It's almost obsolete now. When they have a Hyperloop Network then I will be impressed, but given how things look, they will have it before the US..

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#126

Post by joshiej » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 7:43 PM UTC

Reminds me of the board game Ticket To Ride haha

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#127

Post by djsumdog » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 7:44 PM UTC

Markoff wrote: post #123

as someone who lived better half of decade in China I don't find it that amazing 1. growth of HSR meant less and less slower trains = higher prices of tickets, less available to poorer people 2. prices of these train tickets are actually higher than LCC airways in Europe which will transport me much faster anywhere than HSR 3. buying ticket during peak periods is very difficult 4. train station procedures take probab…

Wait, so you have full security screenings for the high speed rail? (Most of Europe's high speed rail goes through the same train stations and standard commuter rail, so there's no additional screening .. although if you're crossing from Belgium to Germany they do often search trains for marijuana) at border stations.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#128

Post by djsumdog » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 7:46 PM UTC

bainsfather wrote: post #2

"Less than a decade ago China had yet to connect any of its cities by bullet train. Today, it has 20,000km (12,500 miles) of high-speed rail lines, more than the rest of the world combined. It is planning to lay another 15,000km by 2025" The contrast to the UK, where we might someday build the HS2 line London-Birmingham-Manchester, is massive. I am left with a feeling of awe at China's development, and frustration at…

I've only briefly been in the UK, but I really liked the rail system. It's far better than that of other countries I've lived in. I've gone London-Manchester and back and found it a delightful experience.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#129

Post by jungturk » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 7:47 PM UTC

jdpedrie wrote: post #119

vkou wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States would rather let an oil company build a pipeline on your land, then a rail company build a high speed train track on it. Oil is prioritized over rail because it immediately creates jobs, tax dollars, and the government doesn't have to pay up front for it. If you're a politician, which one would you want to support?

> oil company build a pipeline This happens. > rail company build a high speed train track This doesn't. There are actually companies that want to build oil pipelines. How many privately funded companies are there that want to (and have the means to) build a high-speed rail line?

There's one in Texas attempting to do so: http://www.texascentral.com/project/

Serious hyperloop contenders may well emerge soon, too.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#130

Post by grw_ » Mon, Jan 16, 2017, 7:50 PM UTC

crdoconnor wrote: post #10

ealexhudson wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is huge, though, and the UK is not. HS2 is dragging in the UK because it's a massive amount of money to spend in order to shave 45m off a trip to Scotland. The cost/benefit ratio is totally different - and with the Hitachi training they're bringing in, the saving goes further down. HS2 is a large waste of money.

Rail is typically never profitable unless the increase in land value around stations is captured. In the UK they typically leave those spoils to private land owners. Japanese rail companies manage this: they run the trains at cost - or even a loss - and make profits back from (for example), building malls around the stations and leasing space to retailers. The UK could really use high speed rail around the London com…

It's quite rare to see people advocating high-speed rail for such short journeys as typical London commuter belt. Could you elaborate how you see this working? Remember you're accelerating 1000 tonnes of steel to 200mph at each station you need to stop at.