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The Trouble with Quantum Mechanics

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Re: The Trouble with Quantum Mechanics

#121
post #45
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Why should faster-than-light travel imply a reversal of the arrow of time? Can you explain the reasoning?

No, sorry, I can't explain the theory of relativity in one paragraph. It takes a book. Spacetime Physics , by Taylor and Wheeler, explains it very well with only high school level maths.

Thanks for the reference.

Re: The Trouble with Quantum Mechanics

#122
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest way to derive the Born rule is to assume "branches" of equal magnitude have equal chances of happening. This isn't controversial because it's a very basic part of QM that is demonstrated by experiments and it seems quite natural too. Yet even that assumption above can be weakened - that's what the derivations are trying to show to the critics because they find WMI so hard to accept for unrelated reasons.…

It is kinda controversial. At least in relation to MWI; the validity and meaning of that assumption forms the basis of much of the criticism of MWI. If there were a rigorous derivation of the Born rule as a logical consequence of a global state undergoing unitary evolution, then I and many others would be much more convinced. The other part of the problem is how/why observational outcomes occur in a probabilistic fas…

What's not controversial is that empirically the equal branches are equally likely. If that can be mathematically derived it probably requires some axioms of probability. But still, it's not a valid objection because the situation is much better than any other theory of probability, like frequentism!

The second problem is easy to see with the classical cloning analogy. Say, someone creates two clones of you and kills the original. Your experience will split, one version for each clone. I think it's clear how that would work classically and how it's analogous to the WMI with equal branch weights.

Re: The Trouble with Quantum Mechanics

#123
post #108
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, I am Ron Garret. It's true that I don't talk about the Born rule or multiple worlds in the paper, but I do talk about multiple worlds in the video (at the end, during the Q&A) and in the blog posts I linked to above. As for the Born rule, what kind of an explanation are you hoping for? Some things can't be explained beyond, "That's just how it is." For example, why do the fundamental physical constants have the…

Two of the appealing arguments for many worlds type interpretations are that the number of required assumptions is small, and that it gives a reasonable physical intuition for why measurement outcomes occur as they do. Having to bolt on the Born rule weakens both of these. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that if you are going to merely "enforce" the Born rule without justification, then you are no longer pr…

I agree that bolting on the Born rule seems a weakness of the many world view. It would be nice if you could say everything follows the Schrodinger equation and hence the probabilities naturally come out the way they do but it doesn't seem to work that way very easily.

Everett himself however seems to basically "enforce" the Born rule without justification so I guess that would be Everettian.

See https://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/manyworlds/pdf/dissertation... page 34

>we define a square-amplitude distribution, Pi...

Probability is a funny thing to deal with. Say you have an experiment where you push a button and a red light or green comes on based on some quantum effect but the green light is 1000x more likely. In many worlds you'd end up with different worlds with an observer seeing one or another but it's tricky to see how the 1000x thing comes in.

Re: The Trouble with Quantum Mechanics

#124
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is kinda controversial. At least in relation to MWI; the validity and meaning of that assumption forms the basis of much of the criticism of MWI. If there were a rigorous derivation of the Born rule as a logical consequence of a global state undergoing unitary evolution, then I and many others would be much more convinced. The other part of the problem is how/why observational outcomes occur in a probabilistic fas…

What's not controversial is that empirically the equal branches are equally likely. If that can be mathematically derived it probably requires some axioms of probability. But still, it's not a valid objection because the situation is much better than any other theory of probability, like frequentism! The second problem is easy to see with the classical cloning analogy. Say, someone creates two clones of you and kills…

> If that can be mathematically derived it probably requires some axioms of probability.

I have no problem with axioms of probability being used. I just think you need to be explicit about what the fundamental postulates of the theory are and what is being derived. Clearly, in order to make predictions in line with experiment, a physical meaning must be assigned to the norm-squared of the wave-function. Most modern accounts don't make this a fundamental postulate, so it needs to be derived in a coherent manner.

> it's not a valid objection because the situation is much better than any other theory of probability

Beside the point. If our best theory of nature is flawed then we need to be honest about it.

> like frequentism!

OK- what about Quantum Bayesianism? That's a coherent and consistent account of quantum probabilities. It just lacks in what one can really say about the underlying reality.

> it's clear how that would work classically and how it's analogous to the WMI with equal branch weights.

I think its a false analogy. There aren't actually two copies of you in MWI, just a superposition of two different states. I need an explicit process by which classical probabilities emerge, not an intuitive allusion to how it's kind of like some classical process. A superposition is not classical; that's the whole issue!

Re: The Trouble with Quantum Mechanics

#125
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's not controversial is that empirically the equal branches are equally likely. If that can be mathematically derived it probably requires some axioms of probability. But still, it's not a valid objection because the situation is much better than any other theory of probability, like frequentism! The second problem is easy to see with the classical cloning analogy. Say, someone creates two clones of you and kills…

> If that can be mathematically derived it probably requires some axioms of probability. I have no problem with axioms of probability being used. I just think you need to be explicit about what the fundamental postulates of the theory are and what is being derived. Clearly, in order to make predictions in line with experiment, a physical meaning must be assigned to the norm-squared of the wave-function. Most modern a…

We are not being dishonest here. Even if Born's rule was postulated, WMI would still have the most technical merit. Physics can never have a proof anyway.

And the Born rule is just assigning probability to the norm-squared of the wave function, so I'm not sure why you think it's assumed in a derivation of the Born rule itself. That would make the proof a tautology. The assumptions are laid out explicitly for the various proofs throughout the series of papers and critiques.

QBism is all about belief of agents and if you think that's a valid approach than the decision theoretic proof from Deutsch and Wallace shouldn't be hard to accept. Actually a derivation of the Born rule in QBism must take the same form.

A superposition of two different states is two copies after decoherence. They occupy different parts of the wave function and they share nothing, so can't interact. In configuration space (not classical space) they are separated "wave packets".

Re: The Trouble with Quantum Mechanics

#126
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's not controversial is that empirically the equal branches are equally likely. If that can be mathematically derived it probably requires some axioms of probability. But still, it's not a valid objection because the situation is much better than any other theory of probability, like frequentism! The second problem is easy to see with the classical cloning analogy. Say, someone creates two clones of you and kills…

> If that can be mathematically derived it probably requires some axioms of probability. I have no problem with axioms of probability being used. I just think you need to be explicit about what the fundamental postulates of the theory are and what is being derived. Clearly, in order to make predictions in line with experiment, a physical meaning must be assigned to the norm-squared of the wave-function. Most modern a…

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