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Welcome Chris Lattner

tesla.com

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Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#121

Post by tawaycozstoned »

pvg wrote: post #117
tawaycozstoned wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there are 2 meanings, and I read it "funny peculiar". But why is it "funny peculiar"? I think it is right to say Elon Musk is the new Steve Jobs (as in "most popular tech/computer-stuff person for the public"), so working for Tesla has some kind of "coolness" factor and they have good marketing and might beat Google's self-driving endeavors simply via time-to-market (similar to IPhone). But why is that funny (haha…

I think you are over-thinking and misreading this. One person says something to the effect of "I think Musk is the new Jobs" another replies "I think Apple will die without a cultlike leader". The thing at the beginning of the reply is just a mostly content-free throwaway phrase not intended for the Talmudic analysis you're giving it.

You are right, I probably read too much into it. It's because I am high, and when I am high I get extremely interested in languages (both natural/real and computer languages) and as a non-native speaker but fluent reader I often wonder about phrases ... too long.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#122

Post by freyir »

coldtea wrote: post #69
iansowinski wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Chris website: "My overall objective is to improve large software systems through the development of novel techniques as well as the application of known engineering principles. Of particular interest to me are programming languages, compilers, debuggers, operating systems, graphics, and other system software." So his new work will have a lot to do with his inters ;)

Doesn't sound like it. All of those ("programming languages, compilers, debuggers, operating systems, graphics, and other system software") imply interest in tools for software development, where here they'd mostly be developing software (self driving engines etc), period.

Tesla likely has specialized software demands, and could benefit from specialized tools. In this sense, Lattner's interests coincide with Tesla's.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#123

Post by Cyph0n »

stupidcar wrote: post #108
AsyncAwait wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not a popular opinion, but I think Musk is overrated. The guy has a huge ego, just like Jobs had, and while he's putting it into a nice package, he's not the guy to come up with anything; electric cars, spacecraft etc. Yes, he might change the world if/once he gets to Mars, but most of his stuff is a marketing tech demo. Bell Labs changed the world. Tesla did not.

Have you read Vance's biography of Musk? He's definitely a flawed individual in many ways, but I don't think he's fundamentally an egotist. Certainly not to the sociopathic degree many business leaders are. And I think your categorisation of his work as a tech demo is unfair, and uninformed. SpaceX have built rockets that are delivering satellites into orbit and supplies to the international space station, and have a…

> Can you boast any such achievement in your own life?

That was an unnecessary remark; the commenter never claimed that he/she has achieved more than Musk.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#124

Post by AsyncAwait »

stupidcar wrote: post #108
AsyncAwait wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not a popular opinion, but I think Musk is overrated. The guy has a huge ego, just like Jobs had, and while he's putting it into a nice package, he's not the guy to come up with anything; electric cars, spacecraft etc. Yes, he might change the world if/once he gets to Mars, but most of his stuff is a marketing tech demo. Bell Labs changed the world. Tesla did not.

Have you read Vance's biography of Musk? He's definitely a flawed individual in many ways, but I don't think he's fundamentally an egotist. Certainly not to the sociopathic degree many business leaders are. And I think your categorisation of his work as a tech demo is unfair, and uninformed. SpaceX have built rockets that are delivering satellites into orbit and supplies to the international space station, and have a…

For the egoist part, have a look at some of his quotes regarding nationalism, lobbying, competition, the rockets that currently get most of our cargo onto the ISS, simplistic comments on A.I, the way he treats lower-level engineers at SpaceX and Tesla etc. am on mobile, but it's easy to find more info for yourself.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#125

Post by devsquid »

9935c101ab17a66 wrote: post #113
devsquid wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ARC is a whole debate, but the one thing it is not is simple and I would argue its more error prone than a traditional GC. I've used it for most of my career and I have seen what sloppy/unaware coding can do to it. Lattner is a well known expert on compilers. Having used Swift since its inception, I would call into question the reliability of the Swift LLVM compiler. In its current state (3.0.2) its absolutely terrib…

Can you explain why you call into question the reliability of the Swift LLVM compiler?

Do you use Swift at all?

-edit- I meant it as a serious question. But the person who responded to me sums up the issues.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#126

Post by abalone »

devsquid wrote: post #110
abalone wrote: post #70

What's really interesting about this is not just that Lattner is brilliant and liked, but that is highlights just how critical software correctness and reliability is to autonomous vehicles. Naively one might have expected some machine learning expert to take over the reins at Tesla. But fast-moving Silicon Valley needs a fundamental shift in quality standards when it comes to safety-critical software, and if you loo…

ARC is a whole debate, but the one thing it is not is simple and I would argue its more error prone than a traditional GC. I've used it for most of my career and I have seen what sloppy/unaware coding can do to it. Lattner is a well known expert on compilers. Having used Swift since its inception, I would call into question the reliability of the Swift LLVM compiler. In its current state (3.0.2) its absolutely terrib…

I'm not claiming Swift 3.0.2 is the most reliable language ever. All systems require time to mature and it is very young historically speaking. I am saying Lattner's design principles should realize better results for safety-critical software in the long run. Compiler bugs can be fixed; programmer error is tied to design. It might be Swift, it might be something more pared down, but he's a good guy to have in charge of an autonomous driving software platform.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#127

Post by shiny »

freyir wrote: post #116
abalone wrote: post #70

What's really interesting about this is not just that Lattner is brilliant and liked, but that is highlights just how critical software correctness and reliability is to autonomous vehicles. Naively one might have expected some machine learning expert to take over the reins at Tesla. But fast-moving Silicon Valley needs a fundamental shift in quality standards when it comes to safety-critical software, and if you loo…

Swift, XCode, and Apple software in general don't scream reliability to me. No doubt Lattner is a smart guy, but I'd be more comfortable with a smart guy from NASA or somewhere similar with experience developing survival-critical software systems.

Pretty much none of Apple's current software is written in Swift though, from what I can tell.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#128

Post by webjprgm »

devsquid wrote: post #110
abalone wrote: post #70

What's really interesting about this is not just that Lattner is brilliant and liked, but that is highlights just how critical software correctness and reliability is to autonomous vehicles. Naively one might have expected some machine learning expert to take over the reins at Tesla. But fast-moving Silicon Valley needs a fundamental shift in quality standards when it comes to safety-critical software, and if you loo…

ARC is a whole debate, but the one thing it is not is simple and I would argue its more error prone than a traditional GC. I've used it for most of my career and I have seen what sloppy/unaware coding can do to it. Lattner is a well known expert on compilers. Having used Swift since its inception, I would call into question the reliability of the Swift LLVM compiler. In its current state (3.0.2) its absolutely terrib…

I'm not sure I would say Swift is the kind of robust that is needed for safety critical software, but it is a nice step forward for application code. It mostly forces you to deal with things safely while still allowing Objective-C dynamic behaviors when you need to get around the restrictions (often to interact with other Obj-C code).

So, yes I can see why one would call Lattner at the forefront of making more reliable compilers and pushing shifts in quality standards in fast-moving Silicon Valley. It is an awesome achievement to create a new language that improves both readability and safety and even more awesome to get it mainstreamed so quickly.

There are a few people who I would like to trade places with. Lattner is one of them, Musk is another. They both fulfill different parts of my long-held dreams. So I consider them to both be quite awesome. Its cool that they'll be working together too I guess.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#129

Post by webjprgm »

devsquid wrote: post #118
freyir wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swift, XCode, and Apple software in general don't scream reliability to me. No doubt Lattner is a smart guy, but I'd be more comfortable with a smart guy from NASA or somewhere similar with experience developing survival-critical software systems.

I know the first thing I thought about was does this mean Tesla's going to start writing its software in Swift. If so they are fucked :P. (BTW I write non-critical consumer software in Swift as my day job)

Swift has its problems but keeps getting better. I only get to use it for my at-home projects, since at work the portion of the codebase that is for iOS is Objective-C with no plans to switch any time soon. Old Obj-C too, and started by people used to programming in VB on MS platforms. So count your blessings.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#130

Post by webjprgm »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #99
xenadu02 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you're reading too much into things? Chris Lattner has been at Apple for over 11 years. He shepherded LLVM, Clang, lldb, and Swift. All while climbing the ranks to Director. A huge number of engineers would simply be ready to think about and do something different after that much time. You might say that Elon answers "Why Tesla?" but in no way can you claim an answer to "Why leave Apple?". (I have no inside k…

... in no way can you claim an answer to "Why leave Apple?". Seems obvious, doesn't it? Nothing interesting going on. Under Jobs, terms like "courage" and "innovation" used to mean something, like kicking sand in the face of the entire mobile phone industry and competing against their own bestselling product. Tim Cook's idea of "courage" involves selecting a headphone jack in a CAD tool and hitting the Delete key. An…

My guess is that Apple was a vehicle to further his compiler and programming language plans. Now that he has done that, it becomes more mundane maintenance and incremental changes. So it is time to move on to a new challenge.
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