Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Real Name Fallacy

blog.coralproject.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 323 posts

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#121

Post by pc86 »

stupidcar wrote: post #97
vog wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes. I see the issues you are stating, but not so much a qualitative change. > serious risk of being harassed and endangered in real life by an army of trolls This type of trolls (aka "stalkers") have already existed decades ago. Back then I had no trouble finding such cases documented in the Usenet archives. Of course, these happened to fewer people, but then, the net was a lot smaller, too. > For many, preserving…

You asked whether something had substantially changed, not qualitatively. A change in degree can still be a substantial change. It's the difference between living in a city with one murder a year, and one hundred murders a day. To the individual killed, the distinction is irrelevant, but in terms of the effect on others, and on the measures taken by the society as a whole, it's everything. But I would also argue ther…

If the second city has ~36500 times the population, then it's not a change in degree at all. City A is no more or less safe than City B, nor is the police force any more or less effective, etc.

There are billions of people on the internet now. How many were using it in the days of Usenet?

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#122

Post by dhimes »

pc86 wrote: post #120
stupidcar wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. People using real names on Usenet did not usually face a serious risk of being harassed and endangered in real life by an army of trolls: E.g. having their address, phone number and other private details stolen and publicly disseminated. Having armed police raid their house because someone has made a bogus 911 call. Having their utilities and back accounts cancelled because someone rang up using their details. H…

If you could die using your real name on an internet service, you are much better off not using that service at all, especially if they require that you use your real name. Use of a particular service or website is not a human right. If your particular situation is such that it's unsafe or you need to violate TOS/regulations/laws by using a service... don't.

Sure, that's one answer. But it may not be the best. Another possibility is to not allow TOS terms that require real names be used.

It's our government. We should write the best rules. If the company doesn't like it they can go to a different country.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#123

Post by mirimir »

durzagott wrote: post #79
mirimir wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fourth option: use Facebook with your real name, and separately with fake name(s). For the real-name account, carefully manage "friends" to avoid problems with family, friends, coworkers, etc. Make sure that there's no leakage between your real-name account and fake-name accounts, or among fake-name accounts. Practice good compartmentalization OpSec.

But wouldn't your fake profile start showing up in 'People you may know' section? I've heard Facebook uses IP adresses to link accounts. So suddenly you have to explain to your real friends/family/coworkers why you have a fake account.

If your compartmentalization OpSec is adequate, there will be not more linkage between your real-name and fake-name accounts than there is between them and my accounts.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#124

Post by dhimes »

syshum wrote: post #81
mirimir wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fourth option: use Facebook with your real name, and separately with fake name(s). For the real-name account, carefully manage "friends" to avoid problems with family, friends, coworkers, etc. Make sure that there's no leakage between your real-name account and fake-name accounts, or among fake-name accounts. Practice good compartmentalization OpSec.

That is becoming harder and harder to do as Facebook increases their level of knowledge Just the Facial Recognition alone has caused problems for people attempting to do this. Further OpSec is not just on you, I know a couple of people that have tried this only to have OTHER people expose thier data or information by posting things on facebook and other sites about them.

Yeah that 'tag your friends' stuff was pure evil. Brilliant, but evil.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#125

Post by mirimir »

syshum wrote: post #81
mirimir wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fourth option: use Facebook with your real name, and separately with fake name(s). For the real-name account, carefully manage "friends" to avoid problems with family, friends, coworkers, etc. Make sure that there's no leakage between your real-name account and fake-name accounts, or among fake-name accounts. Practice good compartmentalization OpSec.

That is becoming harder and harder to do as Facebook increases their level of knowledge Just the Facial Recognition alone has caused problems for people attempting to do this. Further OpSec is not just on you, I know a couple of people that have tried this only to have OTHER people expose thier data or information by posting things on facebook and other sites about them.

One aspect of compartmentalization OpSec is not telling your meatspace friends about your fake-name accounts. And vice versa. And you wouldn't use real photos in fake accounts.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#126

Post by nommm-nommm »

TillE wrote: post #46
KVFinn wrote: post #21

In my experience it eliminates a particular kind of drive-by trolling, but leaves the other kinds unaffected. Only constant moderation really keeps it out.

Probably. I've definitely never seen a good Facebook comments section on any site. Nasty arguments and low-grade garbage. Real names simply don't stop most people from being vile on the internet.

My scummy dad has a fake Facebook account he uses solely to troll the comments section of sites.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#127

Post by mirimir »

dagenleg wrote: post #116
mirimir wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fourth option: use Facebook with your real name, and separately with fake name(s). For the real-name account, carefully manage "friends" to avoid problems with family, friends, coworkers, etc. Make sure that there's no leakage between your real-name account and fake-name accounts, or among fake-name accounts. Practice good compartmentalization OpSec.

Or just have a mostly unused real-name account that you use for contacting your friends, when you can't reach them otherwise. Why even have a fake facebook account? Facebook will know it's you. The government will too. If you don't want the whole world to be privy to what you post, then why even use Facebook? Just post your green frogs and political opinions on forums and websites that do not base their revenue aroun…

Yes. Unless you have a reason to need other Facebook accounts. To get anonymous logins on other sites. Or whatever.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#128

Post by type0 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #69
_fh5n wrote: post #36

I think that this overall push towards eliminating anonimity and trolls from the internet can only have negative outcomes. Sure, nobody will ever be offended again, but at what cost? And who are these easily offended people for whom we're sacrificing freedom of speech? It baffles me how nobody sees a parallel with 1984, here, and it's not the usual cliche claim. From: >do not say anything against someone To: >do not…

Nobody's claiming that nobody will ever be offended again (straw man); the idea / theory is that by using real name, there'd be less anonymous trolling. Offense might become even worse when it's not done anonymously though. Then it becomes a real person kicking a target's shins. Can be good (the argument improving, becoming more of a critique than just brainless insulting), can be bad (the offender not giving a fuck)…

> the idea / theory is that by using real name, there'd be less anonymous trolling.

> Offense might become even worse when it's not done anonymously though. Then it becomes a real person kicking a target's shins.

If you completely ban pseudonyms, the trolls will just impersonate other people. The effect is that it will be even more harmful for personal well-being for both those who get trolled and those who get to be impersonated.

Re: The Real Name Fallacy

#130

Post by owly »

vog wrote: post #39

The real name discussion is as old as the Usenet, maybe even older. I find it strange to see it re-appearing again and again every few years for almost decades. Back then, the consensus was roughly: 1. If a community accepts pseudonyms, it is polite to use either your realname or an obvious pseudonym. 2. If a community places high value on realnames, either use your realname or a realname-sounding (i.e. non-obvious)…

One thing that has really changed is the ability to search for someone by their real name in public records online. There were public before but they were WAY more difficult to search, as anyone who's scoured a city hall or county records archive 20 years ago can attest.
Post reply on HN