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Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

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Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#121

Post by gaius »

CrossWired wrote: post #83
coldpie wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next United States Secretary of Defense: "There are some people who think you have to hate them in order to shoot them. I don’t think you do. It’s just business." "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it’s quite fun to fight them,…

Are you equating Mattis to Dewitt? If so, lets not forget Mattis's approach to things: Talks to the enemy diplomatically: "I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all" Promotes thinking rather than force from his subordinates: "You are part of the world's most feared and trusted force. Engage your brain before you engage your weap…

Banned Powerpoint too. Top bloke.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#122

Post by clarkmoody »

One of the many reasons to oppose war.

Others include:

+ Control of the economy, price controls, rationing, shortages

+ Suspension of most (all?) of the Bill of Rights

+ Wholesale slaughter of civilian populations abroad (so much for "all men are created equal ... with unalienable rights")

But perhaps the most nefarious is the idea that "we all pulled together and sacrificed to defeat the enemy." The government schools teach the children the greatness of our national effort, priming them to accept the destruction of liberty again when the next war comes. The state forever uses a victory in war to foster national pride and patriotism, as if the society made those choices to sacrifice willingly.

Speak out against the war? Prison. Fail to comply with economic controls? Prison. Don't want to fight after being drafted? Execution. Have friends who just happen to belong to the enemy country? You're a spy.

And then the icing on the cake is when the government steals the money to pay for the war through inflation and currency devaluation through the subsequent years.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#123

Post by myfirstaccount »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #96
hkt wrote: post #91

Just another example of the extreme moral ambiguity of the West. We regularly ignore our own standards around giving people a fair trial when it suits the executive of the day or when some stupid condition applies ("race" in this case, geography and citizenship for eg Guantanamo bay). Not to mention "strategic" alliances with dictators down the years that have usually proven to be murderous. It is sad to think that t…

> It is sad to think that the myth of our moral superiority has never been anything else. No, it's real, just not as real as we like to think. Between "imprison people of Japanese ancestry for the rest of the war, then free them" and "imprison people of Jewish ancestry, then kill them", there is a real moral difference. They are both wrong, but they are not equal.

Also keep in mind that the end result could have been very different if United States soil was under attack. Somehow I do not have hard time believing that the people who has comitted large scale genocide on native americans would not to find a "final solution" for the japanese problem

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#124

Post by mrgoldenbrown »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #43
jdavis703 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone whose family ancestors were kidnapped to the US and forced to engage in unpaid labor I have to say this country never cared about freedom and human rights. It's all part of the national story designed to make the occupants of this country view themselves as better than the rest of the world.

Distorted exaggeration disrespects everyone. This country has struggled with issues of freedom and human rights, but it has made significant strides, and we should use them as an example of what to work for and what can be achieved.

Did you just call slavery in the US a "distorted exaggeration"?

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#125

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #103
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter-examples abound: the US actively suppressed democracy in Latin America and elsewhere when it didn't suit American business interests, hence Guatemala. Likewise, a great number of deaths at the hand of Communist leaders were due to utter incompetence and mismanagement, such as in China's Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward. My rule of thumb is that it's basically a bad thing when somebody dies who shoul…

> My rule of thumb is that it's basically a bad thing when somebody dies who shouldn't have (if people were fair and compassionate). OK. Then it's a worse thing when more people die who shouldn't have, right?

Entirely. In the vast histories of famines, for example, there were far more times where food was available and denied to the desperate, than there have been times where there has not been enough food for everybody.

During the food cost crisis that preceded the Arab Spring, I and everyone around me in comfortable America ate quite well. If we as a species cared for every human life, such suffering would have been avoided.

"And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’" -Matthew, 25:40

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#126

Post by lomnakkus »

bildung wrote: post #106
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is sad to think that the myth of our moral superiority has never been anything else. No, it's real, just not as real as we like to think. Between "imprison people of Japanese ancestry for the rest of the war, then free them" and "imprison people of Jewish ancestry, then kill them", there is a real moral difference. They are both wrong, but they are not equal.

> No, it's real, just not as real as we like to think. Between "imprison people of Japanese ancestry for the rest of the war, then free them" and "imprison people of Jewish ancestry, then kill them", there is a real moral difference. They are both wrong, but they are not equal. Of course, but Germany belongs to the "West", too. I think GP alluded to e.g. human rights in China.

I must be missing something, but China is actually doing "bad things" now. The Japanese internment happened ~75 years ago. I like to think that the "West" has progressed since then. (That's not say that everything's just fine and dandy, but there is a clear difference between the West and, say, China today.)

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#127

Post by lottin »

It may seem frivolous, but the first thing that strikes me when looking at these photos is how well dressed the ordinary people were back then, compared with nowadays when apparently everybody dresses in rags. I can't help but think at some point something went very wrong.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#128

Post by Koshkin »

brilliantcode wrote: post #117

The Japanese pre-Cold War were treated unfairly but this pales in comparison to the many hell the Asian region have suffered under Japanese Imperialism. At least they didn't get gassed like the Jews did. At least they didn't get bayonetted like the Chinese in Nanjing en masse in graves or a military unit performing live surgery on them or forcing hundreds of thousands of young Korean women to sexual slavery. It didn'…

this pales in comparison

What would be the point of such comparison? If it is not to somehow justify the acts committed, then it is, no doubt, to try and make them look insignificant, unnoticeable, that is, to hide them.

And what did the Japanese Americans have to do with Japanese Imperialism?

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#129

Post by adewinter »

brilliantcode wrote: post #117

The Japanese pre-Cold War were treated unfairly but this pales in comparison to the many hell the Asian region have suffered under Japanese Imperialism. At least they didn't get gassed like the Jews did. At least they didn't get bayonetted like the Chinese in Nanjing en masse in graves or a military unit performing live surgery on them or forcing hundreds of thousands of young Korean women to sexual slavery. It didn'…

"However, it still is nowhere near the atrocities committed by Imperial Japan & Nazi Germany."

The only question I have is: So?

Why do you feel the need to compare what the US did to other atrocities? You can always find something worse to compare a bad act to.

Nothing you said changes the fact that what the US did here was just plain wrong, it definitely shouldn't have happened, and we should do everything in our power to ensure it doesn't happen again. If you feel the need to make what the US did look slightly "less bad" by comparing it to other heinous events in the world, it might be worth reflecting on why you feel that need.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#130

Post by leurfete »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #101
akhilcacharya wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were disallowed from fighting in the Pacific theatre, so they all fought in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(Unite... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Inouye#Medal_of_Honor_c...

Interesting to note, this went both ways: my grandfather was a naturalized German immigrant, and was sent to the Pacific when drafted because he was disallowed from fighting in Europe. But of course, for some reason, German Americans weren't interned...

Germans and Italians were also interned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Italian_American...
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