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Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

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Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#121

Post by throwanem »

orf wrote: post #75
talmand wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the downvotes? The CEO did admit to committing such anti-user actions.

Because it wasn't censorship or oppression.

"Suppression" was the word used. But calling this action censorship or suppression is beside the point.

It's one thing to prevent opinions one finds unsavory from being visible. Whatever one's own opinion on such activities, we can all agree that it's within the realm of what's reasonably permissible for a company that runs a site where others can comment.

It's a quite different, and much more dangerous, thing to instead secretly modify comments expressing those opinions so that they say things other than the person who posted them actually wrote. In a purely legal sense, at least as far as I know, that's every bit as permissible as deleting such comments. In an ethical sense, they are nothing alike, and I don't think there is anything political in the statement that a company where someone has admitted engaging in such behavior, and not been immediately terminated as a direct result of it, merits extraordinary skepticism with regard to all its future doings.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#123

Post by [deleted] »

treebeard901 wrote: post #113
thinkloop wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Algorithms that are optimized to show more of what a user is interested in, shouldn't be equated to creating an echo chamber. A good algorithm could include variety and conflicting positions, if that's what the user shows affinity to. I don't think the concept should be discounted because of weak implementations.

> A good algorithm could include variety and conflicting positions, if that's what the user shows affinity to. Most users will not show an affinity to conflicting positions. It is confirmation bias in action.

[deleted]

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#124

Post by [deleted] »

pmarreck wrote: post #94
djsumdog wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's already like that. They removed the API that allowed RES to show you individual up/down votes per-post. They've banned tons of subs for varying levels of controversy. They removed their warranty canary. Their CEO was caught changing comments and they weren't asked to resign; got away with just an apology? I realize that Voat is a cesspool, but anonymity -- real anonymity -- tends to let you see peoples' real…

Serious question- Do you think there's room for a new discussion site which embraced all these lessons that other discussion sites seem to perpetually be ignoring (perhaps due to simple entrenchment)? Because I have oft floated the idea of starting just such a site. Anyway, I somehow (as an avid Reddit user) missed the news that they lost their warrant canary (probably because I unsubbed from almost all the default s…

[deleted]

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#125

Post by talmand »

rokosbasilisk wrote: post #99
criley2 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who's "trust" was broken are paranoid conspiracy-mongers who are provably nasty actors who use any opportunity to spread anti-establishment vitriol. Their paranoia is not justified, not to the extent of the conspiracy that they so routinely engage in. Just this week a man brought a rifle into a restaurant a fired a shot because of the conspiracy and vitriol of that side of reddit.

Well thats just not true, the community managers and ellen pao understood the repercussions of it. It destroys the legitimacy of all parts of the site and enflames conspiracies even more. People are not stupid, my first thought was how many times did he do this without getting caught.

I agree. I am absolutely shocked at how many simply do not get the ramifications of that simple action. In some countries you can go to jail for your post history.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#126

Post by rfrank »

justinlaster wrote: post #67
koolba wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Source? The only thing they've done is prevent certain mod tools from being used a slingshot to the front page for specific subreddits. How about /u/spez himself: https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/5frg1n/tifu_... Quoting part of his post (feel free to Ctrl-F to find the context): >> Posts stickied on r/the_donald will no longer appear in r/all. It's not a global change to everybody. It's only for that…

I literally just addressed both of those points. Sticked posts are mod tools. They didn't do anything else. You literally pointed out exactly what I did. >It's not a global change to everybody. It's only for that one specific subreddit. Again, I already pointed this out. >Then why not apply it to every subreddit? Once again, in my reply to you: >consistent and continual abuse of those mod tools to antagonize the rest…

So not using a tool in the way that the designer intends constitutes abuse now? An interesting perspective for a community with hacker in the name.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#127

Post by ue_ »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #93
djsumdog wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's already like that. They removed the API that allowed RES to show you individual up/down votes per-post. They've banned tons of subs for varying levels of controversy. They removed their warranty canary. Their CEO was caught changing comments and they weren't asked to resign; got away with just an apology? I realize that Voat is a cesspool, but anonymity -- real anonymity -- tends to let you see peoples' real…

> anonymity -- real anonymity -- tends to let you see peoples' real dark opinions No, it lets you see a narrow slice of people's real, dark opinions. There are a whole host of opinions you'll never see on Voat because the user base is antagonistic to the basic ideas which underpin them, so there's no point in trying to express them on that platform. For example, the notion that men are psychologically torturing women…

>No, it lets you see a narrow slice of people's real, dark opinions. There are a whole host of opinions you'll never see on Voat because the user base is antagonistic to the basic ideas which underpin them

I don't know how it is on Voat, but on 8chan I'm a frequent user and poster of /leftypol/, titled "Leftist Politically Incorrect", which is basically the flip-side to the infamous /pol/ boards of {8,4}chan. On there people generally don't get banned for having "wrong" opinions (though it does sometimes happen). There are no votes, there are only threads on the board.

I like this a lot more. Taking 8chan as a whole, you get to see different sides. Recently there was something at 4chan's /pol/ where a janitor was removing posts of someone espousing left-wing opinions. The board moderator intervened and said that any political position is allowed on the board.

It really depends where you go, but you are right - the user base of a site is antagonistic to people with opposite views. But they can live side by side, even with an occasional 'raid'. I don't know if I can thank the founder of 8chan enough to have a place where people of my particular opinions (Marxism, socialism) can talk. I'm sure people across the spectrum say the same.

Take a look at /leftypol/ if you want and see that there are frequently debates between sides, and it's absolutely great. I wish I could say the same about /pol/. I posted a comment saying that no matter what position you are on, a vote re-count would be good for democracy. I was permanently banned for, and this is a direct quote: "defending jews". That was the reason.

Depends where you go. That's my 2c on the issue.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#128

Post by talmand »

gdulli wrote: post #104
rokosbasilisk wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well thats just not true, the community managers and ellen pao understood the repercussions of it. It destroys the legitimacy of all parts of the site and enflames conspiracies even more. People are not stupid, my first thought was how many times did he do this without getting caught.

Reddit is a content management system for stupidity and spam. Let's not pretend it's some pristine, important institution. Trolling the_donald could only have been a step in the right direction.

You're fine with it today because it's a group you don't like. What about tomorrow when the same thing will be applied to a group you do like?

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#130

Post by jakebasile »

epistasis wrote: post #119
jakebasile wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's being downvoted because the comment attempted to show empathy for people with different viewpoints. This cannot be allowed.

No, it was downvitre because it's inaccurate spin that is irrelevant to the conversation

Yeah, talking about how some users could distrust reddit in a comment chain about users not trusting reddit. Really off topic.
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