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Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

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Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#121

Post by GrinningFool »

nilved wrote: post #98
mathijs wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily dark though... as an app developer I'd actually really want to hear the feedback from the people who dislike my app. As in any business, oftentimes the most disgruntled customer is the one that can provide the most useful feedback. An even smarter way (in my opinion) of getting 5 star reviews is by showing the dialog only after x hours of use. Users most likely to rate badly will have the app uninstal…

The dark pattern is that you're biasing your review rating by not taking negative users there.

Which benefits everyone if the problem is a simple thing you can resolve by helping them directly. Support is also part of the experience, and good customer support should factor into the review as well.

I can see how you'd see this as providing a positive bias, but I see it more like getting a chance to see if you can't help the customer out before they give up on your app. It also reminds the customer that there are people on the other end - so even if the issue can't be resolved, and you still get a one-star rating, the level of vitriol seems likely to be reduced - something all too easy to forget when angry-reviewing.

Of course if they just take the feedback and dump it, that's a different story - but again, I would think anyone with that experience would still leave the negative review.

TL;DR - too many downloaders use negative reviews as a combination support request and cudgel. I think this is a reasonable defense against that.

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#122

Post by electrichead »

prdonahue wrote: post #50
cle wrote: post #27

One pattern that I consider "dark", but don't see in this list, is using loaded options on a dialog box. One that I often see in apps is like: Rate our app! Those really get under my skin because the developer is clearly trying to play a psychological trick on me, but it's so brazen and obvious that it just pisses me off. And bigger companies do it too (e.g. Google).

This. I hate this more than I can express in a public forum. Google is notorious for it, especially when they try to get you to use the YouTube app rather than the web interface. It's not "maybe later" I want—it's "never ask me again".

There's another one by Google maps where you can't choose to avoid tolls very easily. You also can't tell it to remember that you never want to use toll roads, so it is very easy for you to suddenly find yourself on a toll road.

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#123

Post by st3v3r »

mangeletti wrote: post #85

Another dark pattern (used to gain more positive ratings in apps) is: Do you love our app? Yes No | | | | ______ ______ Opens Does AppStore Nothing It's a bit like saying, "Do you love candidate X?", and then giving instructions for voting only to those who answer "yes".

At the same time, if someone has indicated that they want to give my app a bad review, am I obligated to take them to the review point so they can do it?

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#125

Post by gnicholas »

Animats wrote: post #32

After the first time this appeared on HN, I quit LinkedIn and deleted my profile. They still sent me "xxx wants to connect with you". I'm really getting tired of turning down Amazon Prime on Amazon. I use Amazon less because of this. There are about three extra pages of Amazon Prime ads to click through for every purchase.

Somewhat related—Amazon Prime Video now shows ads at the beginning of videos. This wasn't part of the deal when we signed up, and it's pretty deceptive to just start doing this to customers.

I didn't see it in the agreement (actually went back and looked for something that would cover ads), and it's not clear what limits, if any, they think there are. That is, could they just decide to show as many ads as Hulu and say "yeah, we said you could have access to this catalog. we didn't say it would be ad-free".

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#126

Post by Spooky23 »

artursapek wrote: post #64
cle wrote: post #27

One pattern that I consider "dark", but don't see in this list, is using loaded options on a dialog box. One that I often see in apps is like: Rate our app! Those really get under my skin because the developer is clearly trying to play a psychological trick on me, but it's so brazen and obvious that it just pisses me off. And bigger companies do it too (e.g. Google).

There's a tumblr for that! They call it "confirm shaming". http://confirmshaming.tumblr.com/ And yeah, it's UX cancer.

How's that shaming?

It's not sayin "Do it later, I'm a lazy bum."

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#127

Post by eropple »

hota_mazi wrote: post #101
jkaptur wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, if they're requiring you to pick 1-5 stars to get the dialog to go away, it must be a custom dialog built by them, right? I bet they take your one star and just hide the dialog, but take people who rate it as 5 stars to the "real" app store rating page.

On Android, apps can't self rate like that, all they can do is take you to the store page and let you rate their app. The app can't know what rating you gave. Does iOS let apps self rate like that? This seems inconceivable to me. Bottom line: when an app keeps pestering you to rate it, say "Yes fine I'll rate you", they take you to the app store and there, you do nothing (or one-star them). The app should register th…

I think maybe you're not parsing it--they're asking you to rate the app inside the app, with a dialog box created by and owned by the app, and only pushing you to the app store if you're a 4 or a 5.

Apps on Android totally can and do do this.

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#128

Post by mangeletti »

st3v3r wrote: post #123
mangeletti wrote: post #85

Another dark pattern (used to gain more positive ratings in apps) is: Do you love our app? Yes No | | | | ______ ______ Opens Does AppStore Nothing It's a bit like saying, "Do you love candidate X?", and then giving instructions for voting only to those who answer "yes".

At the same time, if someone has indicated that they want to give my app a bad review, am I obligated to take them to the review point so they can do it?

I don't think that any of these dark patterns represent the breaking of obligations by any party.

Dark patterns don't represent anything truly sinister, and in most cases they are perfectly legal. They are just bad UX because they're dishonest about their intent.

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#129

Post by gnicholas »

bduerst wrote: post #5
serg_chernata wrote: post #3

There's no search but I'm curious if LinkedIn is included. I never took screenshots, unfortunately, but I feel like they've had close to 5 in my own experience alone.

LinkedIn is one of the most common examples when talking about dark patterns, their most famous being the number of ways they tried to get you to invite your gmail contacts.

Just reinstalled Skype and can see that they're trying to get access to my contacts also. They tell you to set up access so you can use the app.

First up is microphone, and you click allow. Second is camera, and you click allow. Third is contacts, and you click—wait a minute, why do you need this? Disallow.

Don't know what they would do if they got my contacts (hopefully not spam them like LinkedIn), and don't intend to find out.

Re: Dark Patterns – User Interfaces Designed to Trick People [video]

#130

Post by Spooky23 »

pesfandiar wrote: post #41
cle wrote: post #27

One pattern that I consider "dark", but don't see in this list, is using loaded options on a dialog box. One that I often see in apps is like: Rate our app! Those really get under my skin because the developer is clearly trying to play a psychological trick on me, but it's so brazen and obvious that it just pisses me off. And bigger companies do it too (e.g. Google).

There's another brilliant app rating pattern (perhaps a dark one). A dialog pops up and asks if I loved their app. A "yes" takes me to the marketplace for rating, but a "no" only allows me to send them feedback. It both positively skews the ratings and collects feedback from disgruntled users.

Some vendors do this well. Starbucks gives you a list of things to pick from, including parts of the app tat have been recently updated.
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