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AngelList acquires Product Hunt

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Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#121

Post by jamesfzhang »

pdeuchler wrote: post #118
shubhamjain wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that anyone could easily see they had no chance of ever meeting sigh . I hope one day people would stop being so cocksure around an industry that has always proven otherwise. I mean, yes, SV does have a slew of absurd valuations based on non-existent business models but doesn't the past success of some of these ventures imply that it can actually work? And all those obvious facts are just "hindsight bias" at work?

Was there a possibility of them having a profitable revenue stream? Sure. Was there a probability? Definitely not, and people (myself included) have been saying this about PH ever since its inclusion in YC. These same people have been around the internet block so to speak, and personally I've seen dozens of much larger, much more valuable, and much more active communities die off because even after bombarding their u…

You have no idea what the probability is. It's not 100%, but it's also not 0%. You also have no idea what Instagram's probability (and hence, expected value) was at the time of their acquisition. Having such a short-sighted, negative outlook isn't healthy.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#122

Post by nadermx »

2drew3 wrote: post #82
pdeuchler wrote: post #64

This smells fishy to me. ProductHunt had no hope of ever becoming an actual business with realized monetization, it was a glorified marketing tool built by SV insiders to sell the ventures of their friends, colleagues, and investors. Slimy, but I guess not illegal. I start to draw the line though, when PH raises millions of dollars on XX million valuations (that anyone could easily see they had no chance of ever meet…

>relatively small community Lmk when you create a website with this much traffic. http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/producthunt.com

Well, I would say it is relatively small, I made this https://www.similarweb.com/website/yout.com which in theory is bigger than https://www.similarweb.com/website/producthunt.com

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#123

Post by CaveTech »

rl3 wrote: post #85
pdeuchler wrote: post #64

This smells fishy to me. ProductHunt had no hope of ever becoming an actual business with realized monetization, it was a glorified marketing tool built by SV insiders to sell the ventures of their friends, colleagues, and investors. Slimy, but I guess not illegal. I start to draw the line though, when PH raises millions of dollars on XX million valuations (that anyone could easily see they had no chance of ever meet…

I recall a podcast interview Ryan Hoover gave some time ago, where he said (if I'm recalling this correctly) that he wouldn't consider offers to sell under $100M, and his goal was 1B or greater. At the time it sounded perfectly reasonable, though he since took the company in a direction that lead to today. The writing on the wall has been evident since at least a year ago. > ProductHunt had no hope of ever becoming a…

I'm really curious to know what strategy you believe could've landed them at 1 billion.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#124

Post by leoalmighty »

jamesfzhang wrote: post #117
pdeuchler wrote: post #64

This smells fishy to me. ProductHunt had no hope of ever becoming an actual business with realized monetization, it was a glorified marketing tool built by SV insiders to sell the ventures of their friends, colleagues, and investors. Slimy, but I guess not illegal. I start to draw the line though, when PH raises millions of dollars on XX million valuations (that anyone could easily see they had no chance of ever meet…

This is such a negative, short-sighted outlook. A company doesn't need an immediate monetization strategy that's open to the public for it to have value that's attractive to an acquiring company. Edit: Furthermore, PH definitely does have potential to have a large scale revenue stream. Any "destination" site that millions of people visit daily with intent to try/buy new products has major potential.

Daft Punk's lead singer is telling you to get back to work.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#125

Post by sparkzilla »

minimaxir wrote: post #5

It's common knowledge that Product Hunt is rigged, and they will not heavily punish startups for soliciting upvotes (blatant example: https://twitter.com/minimaxir/status/763156319058616321 ), or even paying for promoted Tweets for their PH submission ( https://twitter.com/minimaxir/status/786286705263251456 ) Relatedly, there is no disclosure when an investor is closely affiliated with a submitted startup (and often…

I wrote about the PH VC circlejerk here: http://newslines.org/blog/the-new-gatekeeper/

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#126

Post by danenania »

jamesfzhang wrote: post #117
pdeuchler wrote: post #64

This smells fishy to me. ProductHunt had no hope of ever becoming an actual business with realized monetization, it was a glorified marketing tool built by SV insiders to sell the ventures of their friends, colleagues, and investors. Slimy, but I guess not illegal. I start to draw the line though, when PH raises millions of dollars on XX million valuations (that anyone could easily see they had no chance of ever meet…

This is such a negative, short-sighted outlook. A company doesn't need an immediate monetization strategy that's open to the public for it to have value that's attractive to an acquiring company. Edit: Furthermore, PH definitely does have potential to have a large scale revenue stream. Any "destination" site that millions of people visit daily with intent to try/buy new products has major potential.

Definitely. Anyone who's tried to market a new product should see the value that PH offers. There are issues with execution, fairness, and a cliquey community, but it can still get you real customers--lots of them--who have a sympathetic early adopter mindset. Finding these sorts of people in the early stages is crucial for anything new, and there aren't that many places you can go to find them. Show HN is decent, but interested and supportive folks are often drowned out by the same smug negativity on display in this thread.

Where such a rare and valuable resource is being offered, there are certainly paths to monetization available. And since PH is a discovery platform as much as it is a community, advertising doesn't necessarily conflict with the core value proposition if it's done smartly.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#127

Post by dang »

the_economist wrote: post #120
dang wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of this ("for some behind-the-scenes, non-investment reasons") you've simply made up for rhetorical reasons. But even if you were right on the facts, this kind of rant makes for a bad HN comment. A good HN comment is one that contributes to thoughtful, curious discussion. Stimulating rage among those who already agree with you is the opposite of that. Since such comments routinely get upvoted, they're a particul…

Hi dang, I don't understand what detached means in this context. I am still seeing the comment in the main thread. Is this because of a setting I have?

It means it's no longer nested under its original parent (13080432). That way, marking it offtopic will cause it to rank lower on the page.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#128

Post by dang »

j4pe wrote: post #116
dang wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of this ("for some behind-the-scenes, non-investment reasons") you've simply made up for rhetorical reasons. But even if you were right on the facts, this kind of rant makes for a bad HN comment. A good HN comment is one that contributes to thoughtful, curious discussion. Stimulating rage among those who already agree with you is the opposite of that. Since such comments routinely get upvoted, they're a particul…

I'm not happy with your detaching this comment. Thanks for noting that you did it, and why, but other inflammatory comments in this thread have been tempered by well-reasoned child responses. That's reasonable dialogue. Detaching an on-topic comment for taking the wrong tone doesn't feel like fair discussion.

"Tone" is a word people use to trivialize what they're referring to, which means you're assuming your conclusion.

This is a matter not of tone but of content, and the toxic effects of such content. If only we could rely on well-reasoned user responses to neutralize those effects. But internet forums don't work that way, nor large groups of humans in general. For HN to have civil, substantive discussion, moderation is sadly necessary.

Detaching comments, with an explanation of why, has proven to be one of the best moderation techniques we've tried. The sort of rant we're talking about isn't primarily about the topic at hand—it's primarily about state-changing the conversation to something agitated and ragey. Because that counteracts the purpose of this site, such posts forfeit their right to an ordinary position on the page.

Those who want to read such comments still can, but you literally have to go lower to do so. That seems fitting to me, and a reasonable balance of concerns.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#129

Post by fudged71 »

CaveTech wrote: post #123
rl3 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall a podcast interview Ryan Hoover gave some time ago, where he said (if I'm recalling this correctly) that he wouldn't consider offers to sell under $100M, and his goal was 1B or greater. At the time it sounded perfectly reasonable, though he since took the company in a direction that lead to today. The writing on the wall has been evident since at least a year ago. > ProductHunt had no hope of ever becoming a…

I'm really curious to know what strategy you believe could've landed them at 1 billion.

If they had been building the backend to syndicate angel deals for the startups that were being featured.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#130

Post by Cbeck527 »

telemele wrote: post #102
Cbeck527 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree- I stopped going back after I realized it was a homogeneous group (read: white dudes connected to VCs) patting each other on the back for releasing half-baked MVPs. I was really turned-off by that. That said, I think it's slowly changing for the better (rigging allegations aside) since I last took a look a year or so ago. I received a small amount of traction after submitting a stupid iMessage sticker pack I…

"white dudes connected to VCs" It's not about race. It's about class. The "connected" part is what matters, not the "white dude" part. Your average 99%er white dude does not get funded in Silicon Valley. He gets asked where he "summers" and then walks out confused. What matters in Silicon Valley is being wealthy and having attended the right school. Being connected matters more than anything. The only thing that make…

I see your point, but don't necessarily agree 100%.

Regardless, I was calling it as I saw it at the time. Checking out the comment section of a few posts on PH's front page today, it looks like my evaluation still stands. Though my classification may be hyper-specific, my main point is it's a microcosm (stereotype?) of the echo chamber.

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