Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work? • Hacker News Board

Re: Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?

#121

Post by dagw » Tue, Apr 27, 2010, 10:54 AM UTC

kolektiv wrote: post #27

Qz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, legitimate competition from suppliers would drive down costs, forcing high risk/high reward illegal operations from other countries out of the market. How can a Mexican drug cartel compete against grand-ma and her backyard? Secondly, what is the violent side of drug activitey? Again my understanding is that it's mostly revolved around protecting/hiding illegal production, and moving the drugs to a dealer. If y…

Well, that's perhaps true but the broader point still stands. Legalised drugs companies don't tend to have the same violent tendencies. Glaxo-Smithkline don't tend to have violent gun battles with Bayer over who gets to supply prescription meds to a 'hood. Also, although that may be the violence most prominent in the US, there's plenty of police/army vs. drug cartel violent crime in other countries. edit: typo.

Cigarettes are legal, yet there are still criminal gangs making their living out of smuggling and selling cigarettes. Unless drugs are sold without restriction and without tax there will still be a market for illegal drugs. Sure the market will be smaller and less profitable, but that might just make the gangs more violent in defending their turf as they need a larger market share to keep their current profit levels.

Re: Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?

#122

Post by dagw » Tue, Apr 27, 2010, 11:03 AM UTC

Qz wrote: post #59

protomyth wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the current drugs out there need to stay illegal. Not because they get you high, but because they are toxic. I do believe, if some form of decriminalization happens, we really need to up the penalty for crimes committed while under the influence. Maybe assume premeditation. I should point out I believe the same thing about alcohol. Killing someone while drunk should be considered premeditated.

Killing someone while drunk should be considered premeditated. This is crazy talk. In some cases it might be true, but the idea of applying such a broad judgment on an entire class of crimes would be a huge injustice. Severity of punishment is not a good way to reduce the incidence of crime. Do you think someone who's judgment is so impaired that they're ready to drive while drunk is really going to stop and think, h…

Increasing punishment for drunk driving (combined with lower limits and more random roadside testing) might make people think twice about risking it.

Coming from Sweden where we have relatively high punishments and low legal limits, I was shocked about how cavalier most people I met in the States where about getting in their car after a nights drinking. If you want to lower drunk driving relates deaths you have to change peoples attitudes towards drinking and driving.

Re: Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?

#123

Post by dagw » Tue, Apr 27, 2010, 11:06 AM UTC

chbarts wrote: post #101

shelly wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The US spends something like $10 billion a year on marijuana prohibition, and what do we have to show for it?

A few happy prison owners, a few happy cartel kings, and a lot of happy DEA agents and police officers who will never be out of work.

And a lot of voters who feel safer believing their elected officials are doing everything they can to combat this so called evil.

Re: Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?

#124

Post by wtn » Wed, Apr 28, 2010, 8:29 AM UTC

Vivtek wrote: post #108

wtn wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't be beneficial for Mexico. If the US decriminalizes, the cartels will lose revenue streams and will commit more kidnappings to maintain their livelihood. The state will descend further into chaos.

But without that firehose of ready cash, the cartels will die an unlamented death in short order. The same applies to Colombia. We need to decriminalize.

No, that's not how it works. In Mexico the cartels are more resilient than the state.

Re: Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?

#125

Post by Vivtek » Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 11:25 PM UTC

wtn wrote: post #124

Vivtek wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But without that firehose of ready cash, the cartels will die an unlamented death in short order. The same applies to Colombia. We need to decriminalize.

No, that's not how it works. In Mexico the cartels are more resilient than the state.

Then nothing we do will make any difference, and clearly the fact that we might make the cartels kidnap more is not an argument against decriminalization.

Re: Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?

#126

Post by eru » Tue, May 04, 2010, 10:58 PM UTC

rick888 wrote: post #75

rick888 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Regarding prosecuting black ones instead of white ones.. well we already do that, so I'd say the reality has surpassed both of us." After this statement, I can't really take you seriously. Do you have any proof beyond this statement? "However, as far as what I think should happen, then yes, I would differentiate between gang bangers who own corners, run protection rackets, etc and the dude in high school who sells a…

"A citation ought to have been provided, but for most people interested in this topic the disparities in prosecutions and sentencing are so well known that it might not seem necessary." Here is an excerpt: "Whites are primarily sentenced to prison for violent offenses and white prison admissions for violent offenses grew in the 1990s, while drug sentences actually declined somewhat" so does this mean that the system…

> A higher percentage of black families only have a mother..and a father in Prison. I heard stats elsewhere that said that this was the case with something like 75% of black families.

75% of black fathers in prison? Looks a bit high.