Just a couple days I got into a conversation with my coworker about UI stuff. I had to test something against our dev UI. Last time I did UI work was back when having index.html, img/, css/ and js/ directories with maybe a script or two was the norm. I had to fucking run make and I still have no fucking idea what was going on when I ran make which compiled a bunch of shit. There was all this NPM shit going on (isn't…
How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016
121–130 of 198 posts
Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016
#122Just a couple days I got into a conversation with my coworker about UI stuff. I had to test something against our dev UI. Last time I did UI work was back when having index.html, img/, css/ and js/ directories with maybe a script or two was the norm. I had to fucking run make and I still have no fucking idea what was going on when I ran make which compiled a bunch of shit. There was all this NPM shit going on (isn't…
It doesn't have to be this way. Unfortunately, we live in a world where younger developers "show their skill" by making things overcomplicated in order to create unnecessary barriers to entry to our proto-profession. My usual response is to refuse to work on such a project if I don't have the authority to change how things are done to make them more sane.
Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016
#123And to think that I went into web dev precisely to avoid dealing with complex build chains and horrible UI libraries...
That's because when you started, all of the complexity was in the back-end; this has moved to the front-end, with backends becoming simpler and more focused on providing data.
Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> fine just learning ES6, a front-end technology like Angular (2) or React And in 2015 you would have been just fine learning Ember or Angular 2. And in 2014 you would have been just fine learning Angular 1 or Ember. And in 2013 you would have been just fine learning Backbone and Ember. And in 2012 you would have been just fine learning Knockout and Backbone...
None of those technologies disappeared or stopped working.
Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your use of the word "easier" is questionable. Even for trivial SPAs it's often easier to roll the basic functionality yourself. Flipping over to something like Angular introduces technical and cognitive overhead that often isn't worth the trouble for something simple.
Except then, no one else on your team has any idea what is going on and spends hours making minor changes. And it's probably not tested because jQuery is generally quite a bit harder to test so everyone is scared of making changes.
Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016
#126Just a couple days I got into a conversation with my coworker about UI stuff. I had to test something against our dev UI. Last time I did UI work was back when having index.html, img/, css/ and js/ directories with maybe a script or two was the norm. I had to fucking run make and I still have no fucking idea what was going on when I ran make which compiled a bunch of shit. There was all this NPM shit going on (isn't…
I'm a content guy who knows enough web dev to be dangerous. I made 3 manual edits to a css file to fix a couple of incorrect background colours in our web content the other day. I was a good boy and made a pull request for those same changes in the git repo. Our developer explained that he doesn't actually edit the css file. He would have to work out the change in the hue (as a percent of the base colour) and update…
But you ideally shouldn't have your CSS build product in the repo if you're using SASS. That would avoid the confusion of editing the wrong file (the compiled output artifact, which ought not to be in the repo).
Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016
#127Just a couple days I got into a conversation with my coworker about UI stuff. I had to test something against our dev UI. Last time I did UI work was back when having index.html, img/, css/ and js/ directories with maybe a script or two was the norm. I had to fucking run make and I still have no fucking idea what was going on when I ran make which compiled a bunch of shit. There was all this NPM shit going on (isn't…
I'm a content guy who knows enough web dev to be dangerous. I made 3 manual edits to a css file to fix a couple of incorrect background colours in our web content the other day. I was a good boy and made a pull request for those same changes in the git repo. Our developer explained that he doesn't actually edit the css file. He would have to work out the change in the hue (as a percent of the base colour) and update…
That's when I knew things were about to get interesting :-)
Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds like your gripe isn't with the knowledge base, but with the people doing the hiring. The issues there are very real in that, if you're dealing with a non-trivial codebase, there's no way to tell whether someone with very little real world experience is a competent programmer or just "faking" until you've got them working on it for a few weeks, and even then they may not be worth the time you put into traini…
This has been my exact experience. I just had a week of phone calls and emails about a very promising, well-paying frontend job opportunity. All of them were with no-technical-knowledge buzzwordy HR types who were very friendly and assured me that my resume and portfolio were great, and that I would be a good fit for the job. The whole thing ended with a phone call that went something like: "Hi, so, your resume says…
Find a way to speak directly to someone in engineering - preferably someone who is doing the hiring. If you can meet someone in person at a meetup that's best, but e-mail works otherwise. Offer to do a project for them to demonstrate your skills. Almost every company is going to have something that's not on the critical path that they could use help with. You should get paid for this - try to figure out what freelancers make in your market and price within it, but on the low end (don't try to undercut the entire market).
Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being primarily a Java dev, it felt to me like half of this was critiquing the churn rate of using different tools (warranted) and the other half was lamenting the fact that people built tools to solve the common problems they have when developing in large teams (largely unwarranted). Most of those tools have direct equivalents in the Java ecosystem (and there is tool-churn in Java too, just slower). Facebook, Google…
Yes, it is called "Enterprising the sh out of it". And yes, Java (and C#/.Net) has a huge problem with that and Javascript is well on its way. Large companies love to get cool haircuts and wear torn jeans and talk about building fast and being agile and yet, they continues to build frankenprojects.
Again, I'm not familiar with flavor-of-week web dev stacks and I'm not defending all of it, but there are clearly steady-state benefits to tooling, even if the initial setup often ends up being a maze because it isn't in the critical path of core developers.
I think there is huge benefit to be gained from projects considering the aggregate bootstrap effort required to get the whole stack running. But I still think this fragmented, modular approach, even with the downsides discussed in this thread, is better than the likely alternative: depending and waiting on a company like Microsoft to deliver a monolithic development environment for which a Product Manager has spent literally years crafting and honing the bootstrapping experience before release.
EDIT: wording
Re: How it feels to learn JavaScript in 2016
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> You would be fine just learning ES6, a front-end technology like Angular or React, and a bundler like Webpack In nearly every circle of developers I know, they insist you learn plain, vanilla JS first. Jumping in Angular without knowing what a JS object is, understanding how closures work, understanding callbacks, or understanding how JS's "this" works in detail. All things someone should be fluent with before the…
I was assuming that JavaScript would already be known to a certain degree. I would actually recommend React over Angular for a beginner, because (assuming Angular 2 here) they're going to have to learn Typescript too. That's a big undertaking. A beginner could also use plain old ES5 with a JSX transpiler right in web page with React. VueJs might be a better choice than both of those, but much more limited job opportu…