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It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

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Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#121

Post by EdHominem »

zajd wrote: post #90
AsyncAwait wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems the actual fiat currency part worked fine. I don't think Bitcoin is made at will out of thin air like flat currency routinely is. You can still argue that this is not a problem with flat currency itself, but the problem is, unlike Bitcoin, the laws regarding printing and production of flat currency are not governed by hard-to-break math.

Unfortunately for Bitcoin all of the issues 99% people have with fiat currency today have literally nothing to do with how money is created. Yes, it's a difficult problem to solve. No, Bitcoin has not solved it. Piggybacking on the electrical grid to turn "fairness" into "how much electricity you can afford"... how is that fair?

> the issues 99% people have with fiat currency today have literally nothing to do with how money is created

Not even remotely. Everyone is China is acutely aware that the government can print their money into oblivion. That's why they're rushing to dump it into anything. Hundreds of millions have been through this in other countries in recent years.

> Piggybacking on the electrical grid to turn "fairness" into "how much electricity you can afford"

Piggybacking doesn't mean what you think it does.

> How is that fair?

Fair doesn't apply in the world. It's hard to cheat and thus predictable and that's all it needs to be.

fwiw, fiat isn't fair either. Nobody came by to give me my share...

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#123

Post by [deleted] »

shawnb576 wrote: post #42

You can't separate the currency from the ecosystem for anything but academic purposes. The ecosystem is a mess. A commonly cited benefit of crypto-currencies is that they'll eliminate friction and fees in the system, and I think this is only because the systems don't exist. People want security, verifiability, and reversibility when dealing with money. There has to exist companies to do this whether they are Citibank…

[deleted]

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#124

Post by jboggan »

Bitpay and other payment processors exist to buy and hold Bitcoin in the event of mainstream adoption and price explosion; that is their entire investment thesis. They also happen to spend a little time performing activities that purport to make Bitcoin useful and appear like they are building a real product and business.

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#125

Post by EdHominem »

zajd wrote: post #117
AsyncAwait wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't said it's "fair", only that there's a proven algorithm behind it, which I'll trust more than the goodness of human nature alone.

I don't trust the goodness of human nature, I trust the legal and financial system that we've collectively built over the past millennia. Which actually does (at least attempts to) enforce some level of fairness. Why should I sign up to have the future of the financial system be controlled by an "algorithm" that is built on a technology (non-quantum crypto) that could be dead in less than 50 years?

> I don't trust the goodness of human nature, I trust the legal and financial system that we've collectively built over the past millennia.

I don't like X, I love X.

Your distrust of human nature has caused you to double-down on trusting human nature. Those elaborate systems to counter human nature are built on, get this, more human nature.

> the future of the financial system be controlled by an "algorithm" that is built on a technology (non-quantum crypto) that could be dead in less than 50 years?

Well, it's only one coin, with one algorithm, and people are pricing that into its value. But show me a better system. Not even the USD has a 50-year guarantee. Not only are your dollars likely worth 10% of their current value in fifty years, but there's an even chance that something has wiped their value out completely.

You're just irrationally afraid of crypto risk and irrationally accepting of human risk.

> Why should I sign up

Oh, I see your issue... Don't worry, nobody wants your permission any more than they do with USD. You don't need to, and can't, do anything.

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#126

Post by smokeyj »

kosievdmerwe wrote: post #92
smokeyj wrote: post #64

With a title like "The Disaster that is Bitcoin" we really shouldn't feed the trolls. It's true bitcoin doesn't compete with traditional fiat for many purposes. Calling bitcoin a disaster for it is trolling people who see potential in the technology. The disaster that is clickbait.

What you are doing isn't much better. You calling them trolls (in other words asking that people completely discount their opinions and views because they weren't made "seriously") and I suspect you're largely doing because you disagree with the message.

I should be more open minded. If you enjoy articles about baseless arguments, you'll love "The Disaster that is Bitcoin" by RogomonZ. It's highly uninformative and irrelevant to just about everyone in the ecosystem. If you enjoy the refined writing style of an angsty teenager with summaries like "Fuck Bitcoin and all the fee earning services around it" - this one's for you!

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#127

Post by bduerst »

EdHominem wrote: post #106
eli wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer, I'm not sure I care.

Right, you don't care how the wings are held on the aircraft either, but you do care that it's done correctly...

Consumers trust the economists who designed it, the same way you trust the engineers when you step onto an aircraft.

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#128

Post by AsyncAwait »

zajd wrote: post #108
rhino369 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is made at will out of thin air. It's just an arbitrary amount created every day. The creation rate was just picked by whoever created it. I think it can actually be changed by concensus. I see no reason why an arbitrary rate is better than a rate chosen to minimize inflation and deflation. Bitcoin basically is a fiat currency, except no government forces people to use it.

The irony being if something like Fusion power happened bitcoin hyperinflation would be guaranteed.

Yeah, let's speculate about far-fetched hypotheticals, because flat currency is totally immune to these.

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#129

Post by BeetleB »

uobytx wrote: post #12

I don't think USD -> Bitcoin -> USD is really the way to go on this. If you are trading in USD, why would you move it into bitcoin and back again? You already had it in USD. If you need to buy some groceries in the US, you wouldn't trade your USD for CAD (Canada money), then bring CAD to a grocery store that also accepts USD. You would only bring CAD if you already had CAD.

That was my first thought as well, but:

If I really was converting from USD to CAD and back, would the experience be better? Would the fees be lower? I suspect they would. Would it take as long?

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