Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why building a startup is probably your most sensible career path

blogs.nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 191 posts

Re: Why building a startup is probably your most sensible career path

#121

Post by jomamaxx »

wolfgke wrote: post #109
fsloth wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Introvert vs. extrovert has more to do how much energy being with a crowd gives or takes, or do you prefer your own company over that of others if given the chance. Any social skill, unless natural, can be acquired.

> Any social skill, unless natural, can be acquired. How?

Wolf - you can be sociable. Trust me. Anyone can.

It simply takes practice.

Popular kids have been 'honing' their social skills literally since they were 4 years old. They have been paying attention to other people.

Notice how the sociable kids might have done more poorly in class, whereas the introverts maybe did better? The sociable kids are attuned to relationships. While your thoughts were on the math problem, theirs were on 'how xyz is not paying attention to me, and why'.

There are people you can hang out with. If you try to stay 'in the present' and actually practice paying attention to their thoughts and emotional signals, they will like you.

Unless you literally have autism, there's a 100% chance that you can be sociable. Also - take heart with the fact that most people find it difficult to interact with others. Want to know a secret: many extroverts, who are socially attuned, are actually quite nervous among others, always watching what they say, being deliberate with their actions. So don't feel alone. You're in the majority.

Re: Why building a startup is probably your most sensible career path

#122

Post by cbhl »

pb wrote: post #65
__mbm__ wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Failing at a startup sucks This. I have a PhD and a failed startup. It felt real bad, and I didn't get that far with it (9 months before calling it quits). Creating a successful startup requires significantly more energy and stress than most science jobs, even for pre-tenure professors. It requires different skills than science. Few introverts will succeed at founding a company, for example. Moreover, you have to p…

Many of the most successful founders are introverts. Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, Bill Gates, none of them are very extroverted, but they've started some of the most valuable companies in the world. Of course if you are so introverted that you are unable to make eye contact or talk to people it will be a problem, but most of us are not that extreme.

This eventually became a liability for Mark Zuckerberg; some of his earliest TV interviews went really, really badly. IIRC, Zuck hired a public speaking instructor, had Jesse Eisenberg open various internal and external speaking events for him (such as the keynote for F8 around this time), started having lunches with employees to practice talking to them in Chinese, etc.

Re: Why building a startup is probably your most sensible career path

#123

Post by jomamaxx »

sremani wrote: post #6

I really do not understand the cynical posts here, but given the path for Ph.D.s trying to get tenure is getting more difficult. Deep Science ventures are providing a path ahead. I understand the writer is vested in his venture. I was watching the ultra-endurance documentary the one in Tennesse, he was telling its usually people with Masters or PhDs who excel at this because they are used to planning and preparation.…

I would argue most PhD students don't have the right kind of hustle to be entrepreneurs.

Yes - the IQ, work ethic is there. But they are differential.

All the succesfull business people I know have been 'hustlers' since grade 1.

Look at the early emails between Zuck and others at Harvard. Age 19 that kid was already a baby shark. Very cynical, competitive (granted, it might be an ivy league thing).

Successful entrepreneurs I find are more like Trump than not.

And I don't think that Google and a few others are good examples. Aside from the 'top 10' big companies, you'll find that most are classical alpha dudes, really hustling hard, trying to make $$$ any way they can, focusing on those outcomes.

PhD's tend to be very deferential to authority, they believe in 'true outcomes' (i.e. some kind of real progress) etc. when often Entrepreneurs don't care that much: have produce, hype it up, make money.

Steve Jobs was a hustler, not a scientist. Taking credit for others work, massively leveraging over his own staff (taking their equity etc.). Gates, Ellison, Benioff, same deal. Travis K of Uber I think is much the same, and in many ways I think Zuck as well. Bezos. Even a lot of the 'shy' type CEO's, I think, are still inner hustlers.

Obviously these are huge generalizations.

Re: Why building a startup is probably your most sensible career path

#124

Post by monkmartinez »

pipio21 wrote: post #107
monkmartinez wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does a startup have? Proposals and Stress = Check low success rates and intense competition = Check Need for sales = Check I can't help but think you essentially have the same situation in academia as one has in a startup, only "it's different." The difference to me is the illusion of control. One may think that they are in control of the startup vs. the bureaucracy of government/academia/established business. I posi…

This is like saying that Leo Messy scoring goals is luck. As a business owner that meets other business owners every day I believe "luck" is not that important. There is a lot of space for normal business in the world, that solves a problem, give a service or creates simple products. You can be good at it or not. Most successful owners I know are not lucky at all. Luck applies to the "changing the wold" thing, but 99…

What is luck?

Does Messi score a goal on every attempt? Does he score a goal on every third attempt?

To me, "luck" is everything you don't control. You can call it fate, reality, "the grind", or life. The fact is you don't have complete control over most aspects you think you have control over. It is an illusion.

Re: Why building a startup is probably your most sensible career path

#125

Post by maxxxxx »

pb wrote: post #65
__mbm__ wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Failing at a startup sucks This. I have a PhD and a failed startup. It felt real bad, and I didn't get that far with it (9 months before calling it quits). Creating a successful startup requires significantly more energy and stress than most science jobs, even for pre-tenure professors. It requires different skills than science. Few introverts will succeed at founding a company, for example. Moreover, you have to p…

Many of the most successful founders are introverts. Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, Bill Gates, none of them are very extroverted, but they've started some of the most valuable companies in the world. Of course if you are so introverted that you are unable to make eye contact or talk to people it will be a problem, but most of us are not that extreme.

Don't confuse introvert with shy. they are different things.

Re: Why building a startup is probably your most sensible career path

#126

Post by monkmartinez »

drbojingle wrote: post #111
matrix wrote: post #54

While the author does quote the very low odds of success, I think he does readers a disservice by minimizing that risk. Very few people have the right disposition, the right partners, the right idea, and the right skill set to launch a startup. Being a freshly minted PhD doesn't change that. Failing at a startup sucks, and sucks really hard. But of course, its not in a VC's interest to tell you the pain that comes wi…

I don't disagree with you completely, but as a guy working for a start-up I would say that no matter if we find success or failure I'm going to personally walk away with good memories and a hell of an experience. There's more to it than success.

How many times can you afford to be unsuccessful? I am not advocating an aversion to risk, mind you. I am simply asking the question. My guess is that it is deeply personal and has more to do with life goals than that of work/career goals.

Re: Why building a startup is probably your most sensible career path

#127

Post by bdcravens »

drbojingle wrote: post #111
matrix wrote: post #54

While the author does quote the very low odds of success, I think he does readers a disservice by minimizing that risk. Very few people have the right disposition, the right partners, the right idea, and the right skill set to launch a startup. Being a freshly minted PhD doesn't change that. Failing at a startup sucks, and sucks really hard. But of course, its not in a VC's interest to tell you the pain that comes wi…

I don't disagree with you completely, but as a guy working for a start-up I would say that no matter if we find success or failure I'm going to personally walk away with good memories and a hell of an experience. There's more to it than success.

So if you were faced with a nice fat exit, or could continue running the company with the day to day grind, would you continue to pick the journey over the destination?

Re: Why building a startup is probably your most sensible career path

#128

Post by bdcravens »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #48
mikebenfield wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Writing a 100 page thesis is not hard work either. Maybe don't belittle things you've never done? Doing a PhD is not just sitting down and writing a thesis, and it's also not just taking a few classes that occasionally require late nights. A PhD student is typically teaching one or more classes, learning as much as possible about his/her field, reading papers at the forefront of research in his/her field, conductin…

I think you're both making different points. Yes, a PhD is a lot of work (I'd assume, haven't got one). Maybe more work than a startup. But it's not "hard" work in the sense that you don't have a 90% chance of your thesis being rejected despite you trying your hardest. You don't have to be scared of Google catching wind of your thesis and publishing a better version before you can finish it. Your advisor doesn't take…

Are PhD candidates more self-selecting? I've met some very clueless people who tried to startup, and they contributed to that 90%. Sometimes it wasn't because it was hard, but because it was a really bad idea, or the founder(s) really lacked talent. PhD candidates on the other hand to even be eligible had to succeed already, whereas anyone can startup. I'd argue that a 50% PhD failure rate is comparable or more significant than a 90% startup failure rate. (unless we can qualify those startups by industry experience, previous businesses run, etc)

Re: Why building a startup is probably your most sensible career path

#129

Post by nhance »

pipio21 wrote: post #107
monkmartinez wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does a startup have? Proposals and Stress = Check low success rates and intense competition = Check Need for sales = Check I can't help but think you essentially have the same situation in academia as one has in a startup, only "it's different." The difference to me is the illusion of control. One may think that they are in control of the startup vs. the bureaucracy of government/academia/established business. I posi…

This is like saying that Leo Messy scoring goals is luck. As a business owner that meets other business owners every day I believe "luck" is not that important. There is a lot of space for normal business in the world, that solves a problem, give a service or creates simple products. You can be good at it or not. Most successful owners I know are not lucky at all. Luck applies to the "changing the wold" thing, but 99…

From what I've seen on HN, many commenters are experts on what won't work.

The faith that big things come from little ones is a bigger factor in success than is often acknowledged.

Re: Why building a startup is probably your most sensible career path

#130

Post by stevenwiles »

mikebenfield wrote: post #30
jondubois wrote: post #13

I didn't go as far as PhD, but when I came out of uni, I knew nothing about life or work. I really wouldn't recommend anyone to try to launch their own startup right out of uni (especially not alone). When I think back to it; if I had succeeded with my first startup right out of uni, I would have had a seriously distorted view of life. My idea of 'hard work' has changed a lot since then. Staying up till 3am a few tim…

> Writing a 100 page thesis is not hard work either. Maybe don't belittle things you've never done? Doing a PhD is not just sitting down and writing a thesis, and it's also not just taking a few classes that occasionally require late nights. A PhD student is typically teaching one or more classes, learning as much as possible about his/her field, reading papers at the forefront of research in his/her field, conductin…

Sorry, but a PhD does not require hard work or significant intellect at all. It just required following directions.

Please don't make PhDs sound more difficult than they really are. That is disingenuous.

Post reply on HN