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A Survival Guide to a PhD

karpathy.github.io

121–130 of 130 posts

Re: A Survival Guide to a PhD

#121
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also do you mind modifying the title to say a Survival Guide to a C.S. PhD? Absolutely everything the GP says is spot on, the C.S. PhD is really atypical amongst all the Ph.D. disciplines. E.g. the resource constraints that exist in many disciplines don't even exist in C.S. - it is almost completely the product of thought/ideas and ever cheapening computing power. I would suggest sending out your article to Ph.D. stu…

I disagree. It's true that it's easier to get funding for CS but the career strategies described are exactly the same for most other fields. Many phd students just can't understand this post though; they think they're 'students' like they were in undergrad but it's whole different ballgame. The concept of the symbiotic relationship between adviser and student for example - most phd students just cannot see that, even…

A friend of mine did a PhD in Biochemistry. Here is what I learnt, based on the many conversations I had with him while he was doing his PhD:

Freedom to choose the topic: Only to the extent that he could choose the advisor amongst a list of 3-4, which gets narrower after advisor selection

Ownership: I understand the sense in which the author wrote this, so I cannot disagree too much. But my friend would often explain how he could be most productive precisely by being a 'cog in the wheel' in the sense of how much cooperation was required from his lab mates for him to make any amount of reasonable progress

Exclusivity: The exclusivity is true in the sense it is described, but unlike in CS, did not lead to any major benefits (so sort of diminishes the leading statement about the appeal of the PhD). He went through a couple of post-docs, and then eventually landed what was a coveted position in his field - which still pays not very much

Status: This is the only part which I completely agree, and I actually respect non C.S. Ph.D.s all the more for their persistence because there is very rarely an escape hatch.

Personal freedom: Almost 100% not applicable. As I mentioned before, my friend could not make any progress without a ton of cooperation from lab mates, needed to be in the lab usually based on timings of other lab mates.

Maximizing future choice: Nearly every discipline other than CS would disagree with this. If you read stared's story, you get the distinct sense that his choices were maximized because he came into data science (i.e. he didn't feel that way while in his discipline)

Maximizing variance: This is immensely difficult for science Ph.D.s from what I understand, because the process from Bachelors to PhD, and often with a PostDoc or two on the way, is already too long for most of them and takes up their best years. So the statement "You’re young and there’s really no need to rush" is, well, a bit impractical.

I cannot comment on 'Personal Growth' and 'Expertise' - I don't know if you need a PhD for the former, and the latter is wonderful as long as the cost is not exorbitant (this exorbitant cost is common in other disciplines)

If the advice here is widely generalizable, then I would really like to see a few links to PhDs in, e.g. the physical sciences talking about their experiences with similar pleasure.

On the other hand, the stories I heard from my friends who did their Ph.D.s in other disciplines (Chemical Engineering, Mechanical Engg., Civil Engg., Chemistry, Physics to name some I remember) all had very similar patterns in their horror stories of the lack of resources and its impact on their journey.

So, is it at all possible that a CS Ph.D. who worked on an excellent topic (for which karpathy gets my kudos) in an internet-friendly, internet-visible, exploding field of work at a top institute might not paint anything close to the full picture?

True, that is the not the full article. But the best way to be safe is to never get into a fight - don't get into a PhD without understanding what you are signing up for. The section answering the question: "First, should you want to get a PhD?" is not well researched or widely sourced once you consider that Computer Science is not the only discipline in which people get their PhDs. Hence the suggestion to change the title to C.S. Ph.D.

Re: A Survival Guide to a PhD

#122
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend and I (both PhDs) were just discussing how difficult having a PhD has made getting engineering positions.In the course of interviewing at top-5 companies, we both have experienced a$$hats/interviewers with complexes who seem bent on showing off how they are smarter than the PhD interviewee .. curious if you have run into this as well, and any strategies to guard against this? I've also seen people who think…

Seek jobs for which a PhD is a minimum requirement, or else leave the fact that you have a PhD out of your application materials if you're dead set on jobs without that requirement (and it's possible to do). I've seen some success in both cases. Also consider that you may have some confidence/arrogance issues of your own. Not to be accusatory, and certainly I'm projecting a bit here, but having left my academic life…

leave the fact that you have a PhD out of your application materials

How would you explain the several year gap in history without mentioning the PhD program?

Re: A Survival Guide to a PhD

#123
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean, politic is different if you're not working for anyone? I can't even agree with that. You will still have politic in place if you have people working for you, or if you have critics reviewing your ebook, or if you're trying to get your plugin accepted in a store, etc... cqfd

Correct. And are the politics of getting your plugin accepted in the Wordpress directory more or less than getting tenure? See the edit above. You are saying two things must be equal because they are both non-zero. It's a very strange argument.

Getting tenure is a life accomplishment. Getting a plugin accepted in a wordpress directory? Come on, we're comparing apples and oranges.

If you look at some parts of getting a tenure, they are without politic as well. Example: studying a subject.

Re: A Survival Guide to a PhD

#124
post #32

Well, I went from academia (after finishing my PhD) to industry, to get more Freedom, Ownership, Personal growth, Status and Expertise. Here is a blog post on my transition from theoretical physics to data science (and how it made my life much better): http://p.migdal.pl/2015/12/14/sci-to-data-sci.html I understand that Andriej Karpathy (my favourite author/lecturer in Deep Learning, by a large margin) had a wonderfu…

In your blog post, you write: > I do data science freelancing. That is, I take contracts related to machine learning (predicting things, e.g. user growth of a company), data visualization (custom charts in D3.js), preparing and conducting trainings in data analysis [...] Would you mind sharing a bit on your approach to contracting in this space? Here are a few questions: Do you do blind calls? Do you use a freelancin…

It's a longer story, with summary is in "My story" from http://p.migdal.pl/2016/03/15/data-science-intro-for-math-ph.... Since it had some turbulent nature, it was hard for me to put it into a coherent narrative. And it may be even harder to put it in a way that is beneficial for others (involves my particular situation, skillset, network of contacts, personality).

If you mail me (my website's footer), I will send you a quick&dirty summary of my path & projects. In any case, some answers:

> Do you do blind calls?

Never! But if there is an opening for a full-time position sometimes I mailed them anyway, if they are interested in some specialised contracts; sometimes they were.

> Do you use a freelancing site?

No. I followed a mailing list with freelance projects in data viz. (By far the easiest place to start, as they can SEE my previous projects and current progress.)

> Do you work remotely?

Almost entirely. But for the last few weeks I am a bit more related to a particular company, and then I prefer to be on site (easier to talk etc).

> What is the typical contract, how much do you bill?

Since it varies a lot (and I want to increase it a bit), I am not comfortable to put in publicly. Expect for things I do it is also dependent on place in which I live, particular projects, negotiation skills, project uncertainty (data science is not webdev - each project has a research part).

> Does one have to do public talks to get recognised?

Yes. I mean, maybe it is not strictly necessary, but public talks (meetups, conferences, etc) and other public activity (blog posts, running communities) helped me a lot! (But I love it anyway.)

> How much do clients value your having a PhD?

A wonderful discussion starter, never a deal-maker.

> How do you animate the networking?

(Answered above.)

> Do clients find you, or do you find them?

In the last year (or more) it's only clients who contact me, and I accept (/follow up) or decline projects.

> Why are they buying, FOMO on a marketing dataset, or just plain curiosity on the subject?

?

> If you had to specialise in one niche market, what would be, what would be your approach?

If you were an animal, which... ;)

> Basically: what would be the steps you would take should you start only with the data science technical knowledge?

http://p.migdal.pl/2016/03/15/data-science-intro-for-math-ph...

Re: A Survival Guide to a PhD

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, don't do a PhD. The tenure track treadmill is brutal and on the wane. You would be much happier just getting a job. A normal job. With ordinary people. And I say that after a masters degree, many years in a PhD program and the having a normal job. A PhD is sort of useless at this point in history.

Good advice, but bad news: Too late. (Well, I quit ABD (with a consolation Master's) and got a BigCorp job, but wasn't too thrilled with that, and since now I've got this monkey on my back, I keep trying to finish writing my dissertation again, pointless though I know it to be... Actually, sounds like our experiences are quite similar except for the last bit!) [No one's ever going to put in the effort to de-anonymize…

I got downvoted for that? (I was sincere in saying "good advice"; just giving context on my background in this conversation as well)

Re: A Survival Guide to a PhD

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, don't do a PhD. The tenure track treadmill is brutal and on the wane. You would be much happier just getting a job. A normal job. With ordinary people. And I say that after a masters degree, many years in a PhD program and the having a normal job. A PhD is sort of useless at this point in history.

Good advice, but bad news: Too late. (Well, I quit ABD (with a consolation Master's) and got a BigCorp job, but wasn't too thrilled with that, and since now I've got this monkey on my back, I keep trying to finish writing my dissertation again, pointless though I know it to be... Actually, sounds like our experiences are quite similar except for the last bit!) [No one's ever going to put in the effort to de-anonymize…

[deleted]

Re: A Survival Guide to a PhD

#127
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Much of your freedom goes to learning to play politics That's crazy. The way to get a great reference is to do outstanding work. If by 'playing politics' you mean not pissing people off by being an asshole or being unreliable, then, yeah, take care to be a good colleague. But almost entirely: do really good work.

Bash other people's novel work while peer reviewing it anonymously, then steal it and submit for publication at another conference before the rejection notification goes to the original author. Once someone makes it into the review pools for top conferences, they receive a constant feed of good ideas to harvest in the form of submissions.

That's the pathological case, yes. People can also go steal cars and rob houses. But they usually don't.

Good luck getting a reference from someone after stealing their idea.

Re: A Survival Guide to a PhD

#128

I feel one disclaimer that karpathy modestly left out is that he is perhaps one of the most successful PhD students in his field. This likely impacts his view of a PhD program. I personally survived a PhD myself (also in CS, also in ML, also in Computer Vision!), and I've passed through without so many warm, fuzzy feelings.

Could you maybe go over some experiences of your PhD that are orthogonal to those of Karpathy? I'm really interested and I'm sure there are others who are as well.

Re: A Survival Guide to a PhD

#129

I got my phd in the humanities. After following academic and grad school subreddits for the last years I could almost be convinced that grad school in the sciences is a pyramid scheme. So much of the crap that I see people complaining about in the sciences simply doesn't occur in the humanities. Some of it I wish would (co-authorship would be a good way for those of us in the humanities to learn how to write an artic…

18 papers now (bioinformatics & molecular biology) and I have never seen a single authorship dispute. If you are a middle author, complaining about position is biting the hand that feeds you. Most people know better than that. Also, it doesn't even matter as there are only 3 real positions on papers: first, last, and everything else.

Coauthorship IME has always been extremely amiable. Often, when I am a middle author, I almost feel that I'm being done a favor by being put as a coauthor when I didn't do that much work (but I did make a material contribution). Conversely, as a first or senior author, it costs you nothing to add coauthors and gains you goodwill. It's win-win. It's very easy to get coauthorships if you keep your eyes open.

In my experience, if you want to succeed as a Ph.D. in the sciences you have to find a niche that puts you in the position of being useful to other people rather than in competition with them. If you don't, you will fail. If you do, it is almost comically easy to be at least moderately successful.

Re: A Survival Guide to a PhD

#130
post #32

Well, I went from academia (after finishing my PhD) to industry, to get more Freedom, Ownership, Personal growth, Status and Expertise. Here is a blog post on my transition from theoretical physics to data science (and how it made my life much better): http://p.migdal.pl/2015/12/14/sci-to-data-sci.html I understand that Andriej Karpathy (my favourite author/lecturer in Deep Learning, by a large margin) had a wonderfu…

I recently met a professor, he said that most of his students are working in Deep Learning and he is finding it difficult to get people to work on other interesting problems. So there is really a demand of students to work on other areas as well. But most of the students get carried away by the trending fields.

This is a problem in every field. Academic fads sweep everything else aside and then come crashing down.
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