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With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

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Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#121
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, this also gets into the ethical, moral and legal obligation a company has when for all practical purposes they have a monopoly on a market segment. This type of action is what got MS is legal trouble in the EU and US in the 90's

>While true, this also gets into the ethical, moral and legal obligation a company has when for all practical purposes they have a monopoly on a market segment. First off, companies do not have ethical or moral obligations at all. Corporations are purely amoral. It's up to customers to penalize them for unethical or immoral actions by refusing to support them. If the customers refuse to stop throwing money at them, i…

>>First off, companies do not have ethical or moral obligations at all. Corporations are purely amoral. It's up to customers to penalize them for unethical or immoral actions by refusing to support them. If the customers refuse to stop throwing money at them, it's the customers that are to blame.

I completely disagree with this, and believe this type of belief is one of the core problems in society. Corporations are just a social organization of people, and the people of that organization absolutely have ethical and moral obligations. Choosing to join a social organization like a corporation does not absolve you of those obligations.

>Secondly, MS does not have a monopoly, except for having an OS that runs software designed to run on Windows, just like Apple has a monopoly for the market of "OSes that run software designed to run on iOS or OSX". Lots of people run Macs rather than Windows-based PCs, and some run Linux.

This goes to how you define Monopoly, For most government regulating entities a monopoly is created when a company reaches over 80/90% market share in a given product category, in the 1990's Microsoft was a clear monopoly in the personal computing market. Today that is debatable if you include Smartphones, Tablets and other devices in the Category of "Personal Computers"

However simply saying "There is an alternative" does not in fact legally mean there is not a monopoly. For example when Standard Oil was broken up as a Monopoly there were other Oil refinement companies, however their market share was such that they were still considered a monopoly under the legal statues governing monopolies

Your analogy to cars is just absurd, Most people do not actively seek an Operating System, they use what ever operating system is supplied by the manufacturer of the devices, one of the MAJOR anti-trust violations MS was charged with was using Vertical Conclusions to lock out alternative operating systems like Linux. Intel was also charged with Anti-Trust violations for attempting use their market dominance to lock out AMD from OEM channels. Car makers did similar things in the early day with Maintenance, accessories and parts. this resulted in MASSIVE regulation of the Automotive manufacturing industry and passage of the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act which electronics companies today like to pretend does not exist

>MS didn't have any legal trouble in the US, ever. They "lost" an antitrust trial in the 90s and the penalty was absolutely nothing, and that trial was all about their OS forcing the bundling of their browser.

While it is true that the FTC, as is usual, failed in their duty to the American people, there was much more to the case than simply IE, that however was the most reported on in the Media, and what MS focused on in the PR efforts after the settlement was announced.

Sadly with Windows 10, they have back peddled even on these provisions, no longer are browsers able to automatically set themselves as default, a user must navigate to the Default Applications Settings and manually change these. Even when doing so it asks "are you sure" at least 1 time before actually changing the default. Further users report often updates will revert these settings.

>>The lesson here is that if you're hoping for the government to step in and save you, you're hopelessly naïve, as proven by history.

I am expecting no such thing, I am a libertarian. Geo-Libertarian to be exact. At no point did I say anything about the government saving anyone. The fact I believe corporations have legal and moral obligations have nothing at all do with government. Having said that, given that corporations are government created entries that can not exist with out the legal framework the government created that allows for their existence, I do believe any evil a corporation does can and should be directly attributed to government as they are ultimately the creators and protectors of ever corporation to have ever existed and ever will exist

>As I pointed out above, if you don't like Windows, there are viable alternatives now (the alternatives were much worse in the late 90s, now they're actually much better).

I have been using Linux since 1999.

> If your 3rd-party software vendor doesn't support non-Windows platforms, then maybe you should find a better one.

I normally just write my own

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#122
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD already is making a good open source driver for Linux, and both AMD and nVidia has been making proprietary drivers for Linux for a while. Also AMD seemly releases some "Pro" features for workstation on Linux first. The problem of Linux gaming is not the graphics drivers, in fact this part has been working "ok" for a while now. The problem with Linux gaming is: 1. Audio is still a mess, the fastest audio library s…

I would love to use Linux for gaming, but the vast majority of the games I play and plan to play are Windows only despite the advances made in Linux gaming systems. I ran Steam OS for a while and I play some games in Ubuntu but Linux Gaming just isn't there yet, at least for me. This likely won't change (again, for me) because not only would more games need to be released on Linux into the future, but a significant p…

Keep Win 7 for your Windows games library and buy new stuff only if it has announced SteamOS/Linux support? That's what I am doing now. The more of us behaving like that, the sooner we can make Linux more attractive and profitable to game makers. Many game engines already have a Linux support, so it should be easier to port/test games to Linux.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#123
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last few points are annoying for sure, but the first 3 are the result of 20+ years of Microsoft's poor reputation for security due to its prominence and numerous flaws. I completely sympathize with Microsoft's plight here, and while you might not be among those who are constantly infected, the number of people who do end up having problems is so high that they're willing to lose you as a cost of keeping the othe…

I completely understand why this is the default behavior, but there should be an "I'm not a normie" switch somewhere that allows me to control my experience. The Pro edition was originally that way, but as I understand it this is no longer the case and is similarly controlling.

What good would that do? Everybody thinks they're a pro. They'd just turn it on the instant they heard of it.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#124

I upgraded willingly so the deceptive upgrade practices, while deplorable, didn't really affect me. What does affect me is that Microsoft refuses to let me control my computer. - If you turn off Windows Defender Real Time Protection it explicitly tells you "You can turn this off, but if it's off for a while we'll turn it back on". It turns itself on upon next reboot, it seems. - You can't turn off Windows Update. It…

With the latest update... many of my settings for existing features were changed. My desktop background was reset to default, my choice of browser was switched back to Edge, and my taskbar icons were reset... "Oh, cool, I was wondering where I put Edge... now I'm so happy it's back!" Wait, that's not what I said at all. I assume all the privacy settings I tried to change to be in my favor were reset as well, and ther…

> they are treating my hardware like they own it

Next step: In the OEM license, include a provision that the ownership of the hardware is transferred to Microsoft and you're granted a license to plug a screen and use devices.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#125

I have one remaining Windows 7 license that I would like to set up on a new machine. Is there no way to keep it untainted forever by Windows 10?

They aren't doing the free upgrade to 10 offer anymore so you're probably fine. I've been running a 7 instance in a VM for a long time and never had a problem with it upgrading to 10.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#126
post #64

This is the reason why i moved to linux. The path this "new" microsoft have choosen, if they continue to do this, they will certainly lose their market share on PCs in near future and I hope when users will start caring about their rights and privacy, they will move to other OSes.

Let's be real, "they" won't. A select few might change to a mac, maybe a chromebook, and that's it.

Developers are a case apart.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#127
Folks, Microsoft blatantly disregarding user choice and privacy is not news. What else do you expect from a company that ships at least one backdoor in every software they've ever made?

If you understand the true nature of Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, this should never come as a surprise. It's going to take several generations for the culture to change, that is, if ever...

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#128
post #59
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long story, but my Surface Pro 2 wound up with Win10 Pro. The Pro version is slightly more configurable for privacy than Home, but only the Enterprise version can completely turn off the telemetry and so on. Of course Enterprise is not easily available to end-users and it is expensive. There are some utilities available that are supposed to improve the privacy/security of Win10 installations, e.g., [0]. My wife kept…

> Note: Windows Defender may report the EXE as a trojan (Win32/Pocyx.C!cl), and may therefore prevent you from extracting the EXE to anywhere on your computer. Set up an exclusion in Settings > Update & Security > Windows Defender > Exclusions by adding the folder you intend to extract the EXE to. I swear, it seems like people are okay with the idea of everyone BUT Microsoft have access to all their personal informat…

Not quite sure what recklessness you are referring to. If necessary, the exception is only for the one directory the EXE is in. IIRC the program isn't really installed, it just needs to run once to make changes in firewall rules, etc., that prevent MS telemetry. AFAIK it doesn't increase external access to the computer being configured.

After making modifications, the exclusion can be deleted if desired. If you have more info about risks of using the dwt utility, I'd be real interested to hear about it.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#129
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this slightly understates just how sleazy Microsoft were about it, if anything. Before the dialog that interpreted closing it with the X in the corner as agreement to install Windows 10, they rolled out a similar-looking dialog where that was the only way to avoid install Windows 10 - clicking on any of the buttons in the dialog would cause it to be installed.

Over the past year I've noticed a lot of things mysteriously getting installed, things moving around, etc. I don't mind automatic updates so long as there's a separation from the new features and bug fixes. There should be a base core of apps that are necessary and a set of opt-in add-on features. It's time to move to Linux on laptop/desktop/tablet I think. While I love my surface pro 3 and the Windows 10 experience…

On the flip side, I run Ubuntu on my htpc, and have for several years now... there have been a couple times where the updates broke audio, and the fix took on average 2 days, though I can imagine some people having worse experiences...

Getting an MCE remote (arguably the most common PC remote type) working with Kodi (formerly xbmc and very popular full screen media player) took some cumbersome steps.

On average one app breaks every 6 months or so after updating.

By comparison, omitting the privacy issues, MS has a much better track record with updates.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#130
post #2

Some highlights: Microsoft installed an app in users’ system trays advertising the free upgrade to Windows 10. Not satisfied, the company eventually made Windows 10 a recommended update so users receiving critical security updates were now also downloading an entirely new operating system onto their machines without their knowledge. This is essentially equivalent to saying: You've been running whatever version of Win…

> Specifically, when prompted with a Windows 10 update, if the > user chose to decline it by hitting the ‘X’ in the upper right > hand corner, Microsoft interpreted that as consent to download > Windows 10. So what? I clicked that X multiple times and it didn't _install_. It may have _downloaded_, I'm not sure, but did not install.

You are not sure if your OS decided to download gigabytes of data using your home connection.
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