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NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show (2013)

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Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show (2013)

#121

Post by heartsucker »

nan0 wrote: post #114
heartsucker wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Educate yourself: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/civilian-deaths-drone-st...

I don't know how you see this as credible evidence. When she links her evidence of the report to the Intercept it links to another Huffington article talking about the Drone Papers. Could you explain how she came to ninety percent with the Drone Papers ?

How do you see anything as credible evidence unless you saw it yourself? HuffPo is a (reasonbly) credible new source that links to The Intercept that built its articles from the Drone Papers. I didn't go independently verify every fact in every article that contributed to the previous one I linked to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_US_dr...

Here. Is that sufficient, or would you like video evidence of every drone strike along with complete bios on everyone killed including family member testimonies about their selection for assassination?

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show (2013)

#122

Post by benevol »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #32

So now they can detect the location of the "target" and send a drone to kill them from the convenience of their office, before going on lunch break. This really sickens me. They are inferring so much and therefore many innocent people are and will suffer. To me this system is pure evil however much the nsa try to sugar coat or spin it. Who gave them the right to do this, to track people around the world and in many c…

> Who gave them the right to do this

Before Snowden, themselves.

After Snowden, the silent citizens/voters that we are did (and continue to do).

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show (2013)

#123

Post by delecti »

toomanythings2 wrote: post #103
tP5n wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember clearly when we finally drone-bombed the 9/11 attackers to dust, what a glorious day that was. wait, what?

Has nothing to do with the point being made.

We went after the terrorists who perpetrated 911 because they killed innocent civilians.

We have killed many innocent civilians in the process. That is indefensible, no matter our goals.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show (2013)

#124

Post by Zigurd »

bicubic wrote: post #14

I'm on mobile and don't have any links handy, but it's fairly well known that you can ostensibly track every. single. handset. in the world if you can gain access to any one carrier's infrastructure. You can bet every spy agency from every country is doing this.

To get a feeling for the size of the problem, the carrier logs all handset accesses on all transceivers. To do location tracking you have to get the carrier to give you access to those logs and you have to have the storage and processing to get finer-grained location based on overlapping transceiver accesses and precise times. It's a bit more than the carrier themselves would do for network quality monitoring, but not even 10X more. With this data your daily routine and divergence from that routine can be learned and detected. With this plus payment information, you've got enough to tell who is doing something interesting in real time.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show (2013)

#125

Post by l3m0ndr0p »

The true purpose of the tracking, is to track American Citizens. Who cares if they are tracking people outside of the USA? I don't care if the the UK, China or Russia is tracking me. I don't live in any of those countries. But I live in the USA and every agency is better at watching their own citizens instead of ones living outside of the USA.

The USA is not the land of the free, home of the brave. It's the home of the enslaved and it's been like this for over 20+ years now. It's a pyramid of power and at the top are the rich (Corps, people, families and politicians). Next are the enforcers, they carry weapons and can make you disappear (3 letter agencies, State & local Police, Military). then there's the rest of us: Middle Class & the poor, which are both merging into the peasantry, the enslaved, the human resource. Yes -> resource.

Why is our (USA) "news" Media and government trying so very hard to remove weapons from the peasantry? They are afraid that the peasantry will revolt some day soon.

The Enforcer Class kills with impunity and without consequence. It appears that the powers that be, would like to keep it that way.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show (2013)

#126

Post by Zigurd »

progx wrote: post #23

And why we still have terrorists?

Because terrorists establish normal-seeming patterns of movement that do not diverge from that pattern until it is too late.

Whereas if you take some time off from work to attend a protest, the FBI knows to come knocking on your door to ask pointed questions about your friends.

That's what's pernicious about these programs. They're not good enough to focus on terrorists, but there is plenty of fodder for harassment of protesters.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show (2013)

#127

Post by heartsucker »

nan0 wrote: post #120
gazaren wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The burden of being virtuous is that you should not use the same methods that the vile used on you. Something needed to be done about the terror attacks. But that something shouldn't include torture and the summary execution of people.

I don't think we used the same barbaric methods. Terrorists have the intention of killing any nearby civilian , even if they are non government or military most of the time they play their attacks.

(warning: anecdote)

I knew a guy who joined the US Marines and talked about how he wanted to "shoot towel heads." I don't believe that the US armed forces are purely virtuous at the top, bottom, or in between levels. There likely is a non-zero number of service men/women who get some sort of sick joy out of murdering non-Americans.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show (2013)

#128

Post by School-Cotton »

heartsucker wrote: post #121
nan0 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how you see this as credible evidence. When she links her evidence of the report to the Intercept it links to another Huffington article talking about the Drone Papers. Could you explain how she came to ninety percent with the Drone Papers ?

How do you see anything as credible evidence unless you saw it yourself? HuffPo is a (reasonbly) credible new source that links to The Intercept that built its articles from the Drone Papers. I didn't go independently verify every fact in every article that contributed to the previous one I linked to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_US_dr... Here. Is that sufficient, or would you like video evi…

Wikipedia is fine, but if you think HuffPo is credible you're living on another planet.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show (2013)

#129

Post by Practicality »

furyg3 wrote: post #37

If Americans (of which I am one) and the US government believe that it is self-evident that all men are created equal, then surely they should apply the principles that they have enshrined in their constitution to all equals when dealing with them, regardless of whether or not they are a US Citizen or where on earth they are.

I think a good number of us do and a good number do not. There is a world divide right now and you may have laid your finger on what the difference is. Ironically, those who believe all men are created equal are loathe to divide from the rest, so it's an awkward divide.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show (2013)

#130

Post by throwanem »

mSparks wrote: post #113

I wonder if they manage to track my cell phone more accurately than my cell phone manages to track itself. My phone rarely seems to be sure what country it is in, let alone which town. Simply lost count of the number of times I've been like, "yeah, I'm sure the weather is lovely where I was a week ago, but I'm more interested in where I am now". Must be quite depressing for the NSA analysts stuck in their cubical wat…

Actually, most of the smartest people I've ever known have worked for NSA, in both analytical and other capacities. Some of the fittest, too, for "does century rides on the weekends for fun" values of "fit".
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