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Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

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Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#121

Post by deminature »

Mithaldu wrote: post #66
mattkevan wrote: post #49

The windows boxes in our office have been upgrading themselves, much to everyone's dismay: The one in the meeting room decided to upgrade and then break in the middle of a client presentation I was leading. I got my Mac and continued on, but it was embarrassing. My colleague's machine upgraded itself overnight, and in the process deleted a bunch of files and corrupted creative suite. I know having as many people as p…

Edit: Note that i am not disagreeing that MS is engaging in a dark pattern by opting-in users implicitly, and then only informing them about said opt-in having happened. The snide and snark in this post only came about because i realized rather suddenly what was actually happening, and how the misreporting and sensationalizing had skewed this whole thing in a way that the reporting helped literally nobody but people'…

It's pretty much unprecedented that closing a window is giving consent to have your machine upgraded. I'm not sure you can blame users for not realising this.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#122

Post by endemic »

Mithaldu wrote: post #52
Joeri wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a user action to install it, but it's pretty sneaky. MS changed the behavior of the upgrade question dialog that if you close it with x it will start the download and then install when ready. Your girlfriend must have clicked the x some time prior to the sudden upgrade. Even my tech-savvy coworker who didn't want to upgrade got caught out by this. Anyway, you can still roll back, and then install never10.

Edit: After some thinking: Yes, i agree this is a dark pattern and MS needs to be held accountable to it accordingly. My only disagreement with the current direction of discourse is that people are not saying "MS manipulated me into an update", which is the truth, but "Windows updated on its own and there was nothing anyone could do", which isn't. -- They didn't change it, it was always that way. People only realized…

Ah yes, the ol' "blame the user" technique!

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#123

Post by anotherevan »

Mithaldu wrote: post #105
anotherevan wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also ask them about how many bloody times prompts about upgrading have come up, again and again and again. People are not perfect robots that crunch data, fatigue sets in at some point, which is exactly what microsoft preyed on in this case. Crunching data is what we use computers for, or at least try to.

Ok, then report "MS is using dark patterns", not "Windows is upgrading on its own and there was nothing we could do to stop it". Those are both very serious failure modes, and both need to be adressed, but by obscuring which one is actually occurring you're doing nobody a favor.

Blaming the victim is doing nobody a favour either.

The distinction between “windows is upgrading on its own and there was nothing I could to to stop it [once it started]” and “microsoft used a bunch of shifty tricks to fool me into pressing a button that supposedly gave my consent, and then there was nothing I could do to stop it” becomes pretty moot, pretty fast.

Yes, the latter is technically correct, and should be the main focus. But for the victims who are wondering what the fuck just happened, a snide, “did you read the dialogue before closing it?” isn’t helpful. It comes off as smug because because you consider yourself superior.

If there was more nuance to your original comment, you probably should have made it in the first place. Your one-liner only came across as snark.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#124

Post by technion »

yuhong wrote: post #65
mavhc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large businesses. It's the DIY small businesses that always have problems. They should switch to Chrome OS.

This is a good time to mention that the minimum for volume licensing is only 5 copies.

It's still a hard sell. If a machine comes with Windows [Version] Home edition, there are business reasons to upgrade.

If you buy a business machine with Professional edition, it already services all the business needs.

I used to have good reason to push volume licensing when Enterprise was necessary to get Bitlocker.. but now there's very little business reason to do so.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#125

Post by Spooky23 »

Mithaldu wrote: post #66
mattkevan wrote: post #49

The windows boxes in our office have been upgrading themselves, much to everyone's dismay: The one in the meeting room decided to upgrade and then break in the middle of a client presentation I was leading. I got my Mac and continued on, but it was embarrassing. My colleague's machine upgraded itself overnight, and in the process deleted a bunch of files and corrupted creative suite. I know having as many people as p…

Edit: Note that i am not disagreeing that MS is engaging in a dark pattern by opting-in users implicitly, and then only informing them about said opt-in having happened. The snide and snark in this post only came about because i realized rather suddenly what was actually happening, and how the misreporting and sensationalizing had skewed this whole thing in a way that the reporting helped literally nobody but people'…

That's a pretty complex dialog.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#126

Post by Spooky23 »

orbitur wrote: post #42
ksk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The difference is, iOS asks. You can say no. Yeah, and then it asks again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.. and again....

That's when you upgrade. There's no reason to stay on an older iOS.

Tell my iPad 2 that.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#127

Post by jasonjayr »

yuhong wrote: post #65
mavhc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large businesses. It's the DIY small businesses that always have problems. They should switch to Chrome OS.

This is a good time to mention that the minimum for volume licensing is only 5 copies.

Besides opening up a sales channel, is there SOMETHING that can explain what the right way to license Office + Windows in a 50-employee business?

I've gotten by for SOOO long with samba + OSS, and our main stack is OSS, and have remained on the up + up with licensing. But with CAL's, Domain Controllers, File servers, etc, etc -- It seems to get so obnoxiously expensive fast --- for the only benefit of entrenching yourself to Microsoft tech?

Given that I have to maintain a fleet of 40-50 Windows devices, Along with Samba 4, is there any good tech stack OSS or otherwise for managing all that?

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#128

Post by Mithaldu »

anotherevan wrote: post #123
Mithaldu wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, then report "MS is using dark patterns", not "Windows is upgrading on its own and there was nothing we could do to stop it". Those are both very serious failure modes, and both need to be adressed, but by obscuring which one is actually occurring you're doing nobody a favor.

Blaming the victim is doing nobody a favour either. The distinction between “windows is upgrading on its own and there was nothing I could to to stop it [once it started]” and “microsoft used a bunch of shifty tricks to fool me into pressing a button that supposedly gave my consent, and then there was nothing I could do to stop it” becomes pretty moot, pretty fast. Yes, the latter is technically correct, and should b…

> The distinction between .... becomes pretty moot

I vehemently disagree, since by identifying the actual issue you can, instead of frightening other people into fearing an automatic upgrade at any time, inform them about what is actually happening and better prepare them to prevent the same happening to them.

That said, yes, my previous comment was snide snark. At that point it was all i had upon realizing how badly the whole discourse was fucked up towards not being useful to anyone.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#129

Post by asimuvPR »

yrro wrote: post #116
asimuvPR wrote: post #40

I tune cars as as as a hobby. My current setup is based around windows xp due to driver supports (technically an embedded application). My plan was to upgrade to a windows 8 machine and emulate an xp install. But I'm not going to anymore. I tune while driving and it could be catastrophic to have the machine install updates. I'll continue with the air gapped xp machine. Too bad because I was looking forward to not usi…

Your decision is the correct one, but I'm pretty sure that no consumer version of Windows has ever shipped without a requirement that you shouldn't use it for real-time/safety-critical purposes.

Well, safety goes out the window when you are tuning a modified 911. :)

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#130

Post by codedokode »

Mithaldu wrote: post #52
Joeri wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a user action to install it, but it's pretty sneaky. MS changed the behavior of the upgrade question dialog that if you close it with x it will start the download and then install when ready. Your girlfriend must have clicked the x some time prior to the sudden upgrade. Even my tech-savvy coworker who didn't want to upgrade got caught out by this. Anyway, you can still roll back, and then install never10.

Edit: After some thinking: Yes, i agree this is a dark pattern and MS needs to be held accountable to it accordingly. My only disagreement with the current direction of discourse is that people are not saying "MS manipulated me into an update", which is the truth, but "Windows updated on its own and there was nothing anyone could do", which isn't. -- They didn't change it, it was always that way. People only realized…

The user did not request an upgrade. Microsoft uses dark patterns because in fact it is only Microsoft who needs upgrades to protect their future profits.
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