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Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

theguardian.com

121–130 of 173 posts

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#121
post #12

Says more about how poorly the brain is understood than anything else. Also, very possible that the measures that were take to keep people "safe" were a factor. Anyone know if there was a control group given the same treatment (double blind) - but with a placebo? __________ EDIT: Direct link to the related research paper: Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: a feasibility study http://www.thelancet.com/pb/a…

The measures that were taken to keep people "safe" were definitely a factor. In psychedelic circles it's called 'set and setting' and it is an integral part of the experience. Under the influence of psychedelics, one is much more susceptible to the information from the environment.

I don't think it's possible to do fully blinded studies with psychedelics. However in an older study (Griffiths I think) they gave placebo or psilocybin to the participants on random basis, but eventually everyone had one experience with placebo and one with psilocybin. The measured effects did clearly distinguish between placebo and psilocybin.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#122

For those seeking to break down the barriers of the mind, psilocybin and mescaline are the most intelligent options. SWIM (Someone Who Isn't Me) grew mushrooms and peyote cactus to enable revelations in the minds of consenting adults, and every single person who ingested these naturally-occurring organic substances thanked SWIM for a life-changing experience. That said, there are obvious risks to glorifying psychedel…

>there is no way to verify the amount of LSD in a dose

Nor psilocybin in a mushroom...

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#123
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, I don't react better at all. They should stick with saying "THC and related compounds" instead. Its basically the same argument I have for the thorium folks, do not use "reactor" or "nuclear" in any naming or marketing.

The word "nuclear" was dropped from MRI (nee NMRI) to improve its influence. And, surprisingly, I was even able to find significant documentation of this fact [1], I was honestly expecting it to be folklore at best. Though my own research [2] kind of contradicts the idea that 'nuclear' was ever a popular part of the name. Or maybe it was [3], I dunno. [1] http://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?ar..…

I like it. I'm going to start referring to GMOs as "Advanced Varieties" and PHP as "Clarified Perl". :D

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#124
More anecdote leaning towards truth that my friends were self-medicating and not simply "doing something bad."

I am now, well into middle age, firmly in the camp that I missed out, due to fear, propaganda, and mis-information. And that my life might have been much better if I had not bought so heavily into that message and instead had "experimented". Trust your observations; not blind authority.

Anyway... I'm currently trying to overcome a combination of symptoms, thoughts, and feelings, stemming from years of abuse, PTSD, and eventually significant knock-on physical health effects.

In the past, I've tried SSRI's, NSRI's, Wellbutrin. Immediate, horrible reactions to each. The only thing that helped was a small dose of Adderall -- much lower than standard. And St. John's Wort. Almost impossible in the U.S. to find a doctor who will agree to simultaneous use of both -- unlike in Europe, so I understand. And the doctor I found was a jerk who almost cost me my chance to purchase next year's health insurance, due to his lack of response on paperwork. So, no more Adderall.

I'm ready to try magic mushrooms. Maybe a low, pure dose of ketamin. Or perhaps MDMA. Under supervision -- medical or simply experienced and well-intentioned. But, there is no avenue for this.

And big pharma and the "war on drugs" will do their best to keep it locked down.

I simply have no trust left in the Establishment, in the U.S., with respect to medical practice. Or, very select trust, in individual practitioners. Who are often caught in a system that severely hampers their ability to actually practice effective medicine and treatment.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#125
post #2

From personal experience in my youth, I can definitely say that psychedelics (mushrooms in particular) can help you think in different ways that make your problems seem trivial and imminently solvable. Those changed patterns of thought seem like a revelation at the time -- like the clouds opened and an answer came down from the sky. So I'm not at all surprised with this. That said, this study had only 12 participants…

Roland Griffiths at John's Hopkins is trying to do proper research on psilocybin, i.e. with control groups. Although it's kind of hard since the effects of psilocybin are rather noticeable. http://www.tedmed.com/speakers/show?id=526372 Just in case anyone here hasn't already seen this: https://xkcd.com/1462/

Not every medical procedure can or has to undergo double blind testing with control groups.

Pretty much any treatment that has very aggressive effects is usually done without it.

Even treatments that can be tested using a control group are quite often tested without it if you can isolate your metrics well enough.

But technically you can still use a control group for psychoactive drugs because in every trial the first rule is not to give the test subjects any information about possible effects or side effects in order not introduce bias, you also quite often isolate the subjects from each other completely.

I'm also not sure if the dose that is given in this case is even high enough to induce hallucinations in the first place.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#126
post #122

For those seeking to break down the barriers of the mind, psilocybin and mescaline are the most intelligent options. SWIM (Someone Who Isn't Me) grew mushrooms and peyote cactus to enable revelations in the minds of consenting adults, and every single person who ingested these naturally-occurring organic substances thanked SWIM for a life-changing experience. That said, there are obvious risks to glorifying psychedel…

>there is no way to verify the amount of LSD in a dose Nor psilocybin in a mushroom...

The variance in potency is negligible, especially when compared to the variance in potency of LSD doses. It is generally known amongst those taking mushrooms that 2 - 3 grams is within most people's comfort level. The real variance comes from how dry the mushrooms are - mushrooms that are more moist will be less potent. This is why a responsible mushroom grower will thoroughly dry their mushrooms before consuming them.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#127
On a similar note, there are many studies about ketamine administration (the anesthetic) having positive impacts on depression and chronic pain.

There are ongoing clinical trials, it has been widely covered in media lately, and many major US cities have doctors who run ketamine clinics.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00088699

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/03/what-its-like-to-treat-...

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/09/28/44320359...

Is it really surprising to anyone that mind altering chemicals could alter mental states? A silly question, obviously.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#128
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever come to LA let's do it :-) Should add: Would meditation experience help? I feel that my experience helps me dealing with fearful situation. The fear is there but I can watch it and it doesn't define me.

I'll definitely hit you up on that -- I got friends in LA. Yep meditation is yet another form of strengthening the resolution within yourself that you have power over your mind. Psychedelics show you this insofar as your effects are felt almost immediately -- this is why I said your thoughts can spiral up or down. Negative feelings must be taken responsibility for with one self and that is all. Even if you were burni…

[deleted]

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#129
post #2

From personal experience in my youth, I can definitely say that psychedelics (mushrooms in particular) can help you think in different ways that make your problems seem trivial and imminently solvable. Those changed patterns of thought seem like a revelation at the time -- like the clouds opened and an answer came down from the sky. So I'm not at all surprised with this. That said, this study had only 12 participants…

Roland Griffiths at John's Hopkins is trying to do proper research on psilocybin, i.e. with control groups. Although it's kind of hard since the effects of psilocybin are rather noticeable. http://www.tedmed.com/speakers/show?id=526372 Just in case anyone here hasn't already seen this: https://xkcd.com/1462/

I forget which interview I was listening to about doing LSD research but I remember the gist of the quote: "We tried doing double-blind studies, but 15 minutes into the experiment we realized it was pointless. The people who were given LSD... they knew they'd been given the real stuff, the scientists knew very obviously who'd been given the real stuff... There's no way to give someone LSD and not have everyone in the room know what's going on."

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right! This made me laugh, the idea of a placebo with magic mushrooms.

This study is attempting to show that psilocybin is effective in treating depression, not effective in inducing a 'trip'. For patients who have never experimented with psychotropics, there may be a placebo effect when they are told they are given a psychotropic substance. While I agree that psilocybin and other similar substances can induce powerful mental states unreachable by other means, it does not follow that th…

So, I just mean that I find the mental imagery humorous when someone mentions a "placebo" for magic mushrooms.
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